There's no work ethic in America anymore.

[Kobuk]

Do you ever see or get the feeling like people don't want to work anymore? Like they don't care about their jobs and don't take pride in the work they do? Granted, it doesn't happen everywhere nor to everybody, but after seeing various things in past months, I just had to write this topic.

Do you ever ask for help from other co-workers, but nobody ever bothers to help you out?
Do you get tired of seeing co-workers take constant breaks?
Tired of seeing no salespeople on the floor to help you out when you're a customer and/or getting no customer service?
Tired of seeing employees just standing around goofing off and gossiping when they should be doing work instead?
Employees calling in sick a lot even when they might not be.

All of the above has happened to me and/or I've seen it. The worst that gets me pissed off is when co-workers are standing around, gossiping, looking at their cell phones, etc.  IF YOU'RE AT A JOB, THEN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK, DAMMIT! The employer isn't paying you to gossip with the other employees, text on your cell phone, etc.
Nearly every day I go into work, throughout the day I'll ask for help on putting merchandise on the salesfloor. But will the salespeople help me? Hell no. They tell me "It's not my job.". The hell it isn't!  If they don't have customers that they can be taking care of, then they can keep themselves busy by helping me put merchandise on the shelves.

Case in point: There's a 20+ year old salesperson who refuses to help out on anything. He'll help the customers.......when he feels like it.......but that's about it. And when he isn't helping a customer, he'll be gossiping with other employees, texting on his cell phone, or "hiding" somewhere away from the managers.

Seems to me I'm seeing this "carefree laziness" attitude more and more in the teenage and 20ish demographic. BUT......I'm not saying ALL young folks have this mindset/attitude. I'm sure there are a lot of young people (Even on this forum too.) that are hard, productive workers. I'm just giving examples and experiences of what I myself am seeing from my POV.

But if people are going to be lazy at their jobs, do nothing, and get paid, then why are they even bothering to work? I would not hesitate to fire somebody if they were a poor worker and had a poor work ethic. I would not hesitate at all. I have very little tolerance or patience for slackers. If you want to slack off, then go do it someplace else and stop wasting my time, the employer's time, etc. If people are just going to be lazy, then you're a waste of this planet's resources. If people want things in life like a car, clothes, game systems, etc., etc., then you need to work for those items. You need to work to make a living.

So I ask the following:

What can be done in America to instill a more positive work ethic in America's workforce?

[Alsek]

Two ways i can think of:

1. Employers can grow a spine and deal with people properly.  Managers should actually manage people.  Some people do brilliant work when they're managed properly.  But for those who refuse to work,  and do things like hide from their managers...  The only way they're going to learn is if they get fired from a few jobs... as sad as that is.

2. Parents can teach their children good work ethic.

Of course we know that neither of these things are going to happen on a large scale...  But every once in a while you'll find some good exceptions.  My manager for example...  does not take crap from anyone...  But will take care of you if you're one of her's.

[Kobuk]

The only way they're going to learn is if they get fired from a few jobs... as sad as that is.

The downside to "getting fired" is that some people don't learn from that. Some people might think that all they have to do is go collect unemployment benefits and they'll be good for awhile and don't have to work until they get desperate again for a job. They're being lazy and letting the gov't take care of them.

Case in point: I've actually heard people on the bus in weeks past say "Why should I go back to work now when I'm getting more money from my unemployment benefits than from the job I had before."

[Avan]

I think it should be done on the manager's end.

It also depends on what your job is, and who your coworkers are.

Anyways, my summer job was awesome.  
I fall into the 'hard worker' category, but then again, I am also very picky and only would apply for jobs that are fun from my perspective (ie, IT stuff). You will never find me working behind the cashier. I cannot /stand/ pesky customers. Which is why I think highly of the people who can stand the bad customers. Because there is no way I could ever do that.

[Cimarron]

In my experience it has always been 10% of the people doing 90% of the work.  I have also found that incentives drive people to work harder.  When I worked at the bank I spent the mornings doing collections and the afternoons opening new accounts.  I got cash for every new CD/checking account/debit card I opened.  If I brought in a new customer I and opened up a few different accounts... I would get maybe $25 extra.  So all of us in new accounts would come in early/stay late and call our wealthy customers we knew had money at another bank and get them to bring it to us.  Also, when I was in collections I would get a percentage of everything I collected from delinquent customers.  I was relentless... I hunted people down like a bloodhound on a hot trail.  Many times my commission checks were larger than my paychecks. My fellow employees and I would have friendly compititions on who could get the biggest bonus checks.  It was really a good system.  The extra money was too good to pass up to NOT go above and beyond.  Then one day we had a meeting and the said in order to save money, the bank is cutting out commission.  We just get our regular salery.  We went from going the extra mile to just doing enough to not get fired. We all ended up quitting a couple months later. I think I have an OK work ethic.  I have never been fired from a job... Ive never even gotten a bad review.  I actually like to stay busy at my job because it makes the day pass quicker.  

[Drake Blackpaw]

I don't think things are that much different than from 20 years or more ago.  I remember when I worked a summer job at a Zayres (think Kmart) department store and it seemed like I was the only one who did any work.  Move on to the clerical job I had once I got out of college.  I remember someone who would occasionally fall asleep at their desk, and they were one of the half productive ones.

Unfortunately low end jobs like working in the stock room or on the floor of a big retailer, doing basic clerical work and other "non-skilled" jobs attract people who don't have a high work ethic.  People in these jobs have the same work ethic today as they did 20-25 years ago.

Now, I work in a professional job.  There are a couple people there right out of college on up to people right at retirement age.  we get very little supervision, but we work our asses off to get the job done.  Our names our on what we deliver and if we don't deliver a good product, the company won't have the contract any more and we won't have work.  No one needs to stand over us.  Pride in our work and knowing we need to deliver something that is quality has us do the work that needs to be done.  Sure there is some goofing off at times, but it's when the work is already done.

So nothing has changed about America and the work ethic.  Certain types of jobs attract more workers who don't really do "work".  Other jobs attract people who work without anyone looking over their shoulder.

[Kobuk]

I think it should be done on the manager's end.

It also depends on what your job is, and who your coworkers are.

Anyways, my summer job was awesome.  
I fall into the 'hard worker' category, but then again, I am also very picky and only would apply for jobs that are fun from my perspective (ie, IT stuff). You will never find me working behind the cashier. I cannot /stand/ pesky customers. Which is why I think highly of the people who can stand the bad customers. Because there is no way I could ever do that.

What if you were really, really desperate for a job, Avan, and had no choice but to take a cashier position? There's a lot of jobs that are good, and a lot that are bad. Every job has it's pluses and minuses. Beggars can't be choosers, Avan. You have to take what you can get. Especially in this very difficult time with the economy being the way it is.


Which brings me to another point: I often hear people say they will only take certain jobs or will only work at a certain place, etc. Too bad.   If you want a job, then you take what you can get. Don't like it? Too bad then. But if you want the money to pay bills or put food on the table, then you need to work...........and I don't care whether it's an accounting job or a job flipping burgers, or something else. It's tough times out there in the world right now. You can't be picky about where you want to work. If you're that desperate to get a job and get money, then take something..........take anything, even if it might be bad. If you find something better later on, then move to it.

[Avan]

Thing is, is that I make sure I won't ever need to be really desperate for a job I want, a good work ethic is not required just for at work, but school as well - doing good & working on non-work things to get secondary skills pays off very well (ie, 3D modelling, programming, IT stuff, fursuit making, etc.).

[Serra Belvoule]

I see your point, but being working drones that do not do anything but work will get us killed. I know, too much gossip and little work does have a bad effect, but so does only working and working and working.
People are human beings that need a lot, if you're the kind that works and lives for work and when working does nothing but work, then (and I'm paraphrasing my psychopathology teacher here) "you should just kill yourself".
No, I'm not suggesting you actually do kill yourself, but my point is that if you're a work drone, you're forfeiting most of your human qualities.
Again, i agree that people need to be responsible, but all work and no play... well, you know how it goes.

[Avan]

But what comes of your life?
The real key is not being just a speck on a blue speck in a bright cloud of specks, in an ever brighter cloud of clouds of specks, in a speck upon infinite other specks.
And if you can't do that, you can at least be happy not at the expense of others - and if working hard does that for you, then that's all the better. (Why you should get a job you enjoy).
Though slacking off tends to come at the detriment to other people though, so... not a good idea.

[furtopia02]

I'm more along the mindset of "as long as the job gets done, and done well" when looking at how the work is being done. If it can be made more enjoyable or relaxed and still achieve acceptable results then I prefer that because everyone is happier (almost everyone). Only if it is causing a negative result do I see a need to change how things are going. Same goes for myself. I'm fairly relaxed with work. I pace myself and get done what I need to get done with my work if it is within my means. I try not to get overly stressed about things whenever possible because that is just miserable and no way for me to live. If life isn't fun then it isn't worth living to me. Sometimes the little things like refreshing the main page on FA and seeing if I have any notes or comments or seeing new submissions can really turn a blah moment into a much better moment. I wont purposely put myself in a funk if I can help it, even if it makes me look tougher to someone or a hard(tail).

So yeah.. just get the job done and do your best. End results matter more to me than IMAGE in the process. Image is very important in promotions and such though, and I've used my own image and good work ethic to get where I am currently. I really do have a problem with things when they actually interfere with the work being done though - namely smoke breaks. When I was in the Navy, at my command, the Smokers got a 10 minute break each hour to go smoke.. the Non-Smokers had to keep working and didn't get that break. It always aggravated me, but only because I didn't get the break too.. not because they took a break - only that I didn't get one. So in that regard, it was more-so jealously.

[Yip]

Which brings me to another point: I often hear people say they will only take certain jobs or will only work at a certain place, etc. Too bad.   If you want a job, then you take what you can get. Don't like it? Too bad then. But if you want the money to pay bills or put food on the table, then you need to work...........and I don't care whether it's an accounting job or a job flipping burgers, or something else. It's tough times out there in the world right now. You can't be picky about where you want to work. If you're that desperate to get a job and get money, then take something..........take anything, even if it might be bad. If you find something better later on, then move to it.

I have nothing against people taking a job they don't like if they feel that's what they have to do. But one thing you need to recognize is that most low end jobs will NOT help you further your career. For example, I've worked at my mom and dad's restaurant for years before I went to college to work towards a career in the game industry. And the experience I have from that counts for nothing towards getting the kind of job I'm looking for now. Oddly enough, the time I've spent playing games counts more than that.

[Avan]

Which brings me to another point: I often hear people say they will only take certain jobs or will only work at a certain place, etc. Too bad.   If you want a job, then you take what you can get. Don't like it? Too bad then. But if you want the money to pay bills or put food on the table, then you need to work...........and I don't care whether it's an accounting job or a job flipping burgers, or something else. It's tough times out there in the world right now. You can't be picky about where you want to work. If you're that desperate to get a job and get money, then take something..........take anything, even if it might be bad. If you find something better later on, then move to it.[/color]

Don't have to take a job you don't want if you have options. And I have options. (And I consider myself very lucky because of that)

[Mooshi]

Uh...Kobuk? You do realize that countries with a very high work ethic also has a very high suicide rate, right? Take a look at Japan. Businessmen everywhere, but that country has a high suicide rate. Why? Stress! Being over worked is just as bad as not wanting to at all. I do agree on some points. When I was working on the army base, a guy a worked with was constantly trying to teach me how to slack off ect. - he got fired...xD However, as stated with the Japanese example, you can't expect forcing people to eat, breath and sleep work work work to be any better.

Another thing I can think of from an American stand point, is the lack of self respect. Not just by the employees, by the damn companies themselves! Selling out to cheap labor overseas, treating its workforce as expendable drones, CEOs getting government bail outs, the constant "made in China" crap everywhere. We hardly make anything anymore. Overall, this causes pride to drop and without pride, you don't have much incentive to give it your all if you're employer doesn't give a damn about you anyway. Also comes with the territory of modern living. Kobuk, your parents gen were the REAL hard workers and gens before them. Back when it wasn't unusual to see young children working long hours in the fields. Noways, you see the same age group eating McDonalds and listening to their ipod.

[Avan]

You do realize though that the focus has shifted from primary and secondary sectors to tertiary, quaternary and quinary (primary here requires few people to make a lot, so it doesn't count, as big of a part of the economy it is). So there is a reason why no physical products are being made here any more.

And who cares where something is made? All it signifies is where it was manufactured. Secondary sector. What place was required to have all the low-pay, low-skill factory jobs (And factories). Plus most secondary stuff pollutes, because businesses would cut any corners they can take (And thus if forced to keep secondary domestic, they would simply lobby to get their way, or at least, less stringent regulations)
What about all the other sectors? Someone had to design the product in the first place... Market it... Get all the legal stuff sorted out... Get the designs to the manufacturing plants... etc.

Sure, there are many, many ways in which the current system is broken, but I'm not talking about those right now. Just that there is a lot more to a product than where it was physically made.

[Acton]

I deal with this as an unemployed person. I am doing my hardest to get off and even take day jobs that affect my unemployment. There are times I got less on a job net because it exceeds my unemployment of 230 a week. My last job lasting a on day to one week might end my chance in getting more unemployment (Tier one) I may have no income or home or I just have to take an fill in job. What get me is the 99ers I bloged about it http://www.lionspeak.asinglelion.com/?p=278
.  People have time to protest but not to look for work. 99 week of unemployment is enough. If one cannot figure by 52 weeks, one may need to move out or try a different field. For example, one protester is a manger; why not move out of New York to a small or medium town in the mid west.

I do take issue with one thing Kubuk, any job is better than no job. It is easy for you to say when you never had the potential to earn more than a retail clerk. It is stupid for a person that has a potential to earn 50,000 to work am minimum wage when they may have to take a 25% pay cut or work in anther city or state. This is huge loss of potential for the economy. Another problem is lack of wisdom that reaches from the lowest pay worker to   HR department and CEO. if guy works out side their field it is impossible get back in because the HR manger fails to  see hard worker but somebody is outside their field too long. Then there is the utter stupidity of hiring only from those who are already working and decimating against unemployed people.

Still you are right form a macro point of view.  From my generation, the boomers, and beyond is narcissism that lead to a demands of entitlement. The purpose of a business is to make money not to be a sugar daddy to provide one employment.  Employment is a mutual benefit for both a company needs people to be profitable and a worker seeking employment. It why I can stat attack against free trade and ceo pay. I none of one business and lead to a myopic view of the economy.

[Serra Belvoule]

Uh...Kobuk? You do realize that countries with a very high work ethic also has a very high suicide rate, right?
[... here was a big speech on generation differences]

I think your first paragraph enforces what I mentioned, stress kills :3
The generational breach is true, too, but I'm not sure that it's a good thing x3

[Foxxhoria]

I think it's that people have made work these days separate from their homes, but spend most of their waking time there on most days; people begin to feel the need to socialise, and then it becomes a place to hang out, and then work ethic drops because they're too busy messing about.

Or, though similarly, they may feel somewhat deprived of the creature comforts they have at home, and begin to feel a yearning to get back to that so don't put so much effort into their job.

Ultimately it would seem like working days need to be much smaller and more bitesize, but this probably isn't very easy/economical.

Edit:
Also, as Mooshi was saying, there isn't very much respect being thrown around.  The Japanese seem to have such a high work ethic because they have the honour of their family, their business, and themselves to uphold.  Honour doesn't have much emphasis in our western culture (though there's not much we can do about this really, individually).

[animagusurreal]

Kobuk, it sounds like you've got a very frustrating situation at your workplace.

However, when I see a phrase like “There's no work ethic in America anymore”, my reaction is colored by my own experiences.

When I was unemployed (after getting laid off due to budget cuts) and semi-homeless (living in a motel), a lot of people used my alleged lack of “work ethic” as an excuse to treat me like dirt. Even my biological father - of whom I have never asked anything, not even when I was a kid - said to me, “In my family, we work for a living,” when I asked him for a few dollars so I could keep from winding up with noplace to sleep for the night.

Now I have a place to live, and have been working at a retail store for the past year and half. We're almost constantly working while we're there (which I actually prefer), and fortunately, we do help each other out.

“It's not my job” is usually not an appropriate response, unless you're busy doing something else, or don't have the required training to do something (not the case in what you described).

However, what I think must be remembered is: people are people, not robots. If somebody takes a momentary breather after helping 50 customers in a row, if somebody exchanges a few friendly words to a fellow worker when there are no customers in need of help, if somebody has a thought and becomes momentarily distracted from the long parade of daily tasks, it ought to be alright.

And I know that there are people who do have a problem with that (not saying you, Kobuk – the topic title just made me think of it).
 One day I got out of a required computer training session (adjacent to the timeclock) and found that it was less than two minutes before I had to clock out. Our manager told us he wanted us to clock out exactly at the time we were scheduled to, and walking to my department and back would take at least two minutes by itself. (no time to actually do anything there). So I waited. A lower-level supervisor* happened by and berated me. “The company pays you to work, it doesn't pay you to stand around! You're STEALING THE COMPANY'S MONEY!!!” (Yeah. That was my motive. Stealing 34 cents from the company.) I asked her if she wanted me to return to my department, but instead she had me clock out, and the only reason I didn't do that in the first place was because of what our manager had said. On any ordinary day, I wouldn't be at the time clock two minutes early. I'd be working right up until it was time to leave. The only reason I was there was because I was doing the computer training.

*Note that most of my other supervisors, including the head managers, are very nice.

I had one other incident with this supervisor – it was near closing and there were no customers in my department. The husband of one of the cashiers (technically a customer since he doesn't work there), and I were having a little conversation while I was cleaning the cases, which is part of my required closing routine. The supervisor called the department phone and said, “I didn't want to interrupt your conversation with the gentleman, but I think you need to focus on your tasks.” When I explained that I had been cleaning the entire time, which she had apparently somehow missed, she suddenly decided I needed to straighten the shelves before I cleaned, because the department was “a disaster.” Which it was not . Of course, I could just as easily have talked to him while straightening the shelves, and no, my work would not have suffered for it. (In the meantime, he had walked away when the phone rang).

[Sk Skunk]

I have to disagree to some extent with the statement, "There's no work ethic in America anymore". There is a work ethic, it's just wide and varied as is the population. That being said, too many people have the "I'm special" attitude. It astounds me what some people think is OK in the workplace. I'm reminded of an old TV show, the office staff had a mantra, "NO WORK, AND PAY". No, you don't need to be talking to your friends multiple times a day. If your job is tending trash cans, don't wait until there are piles overflowing on the floor. If you have time to lean, you have time to clean!

I have been in the management chair before. The experience has left me with an deep disgust for the position. Interviewing people is both comical and sad. Many don't understand that the interview starts on first contact. I would start judging people from that first phone call. If you get out of your car and garbage is falling out, you have a big hill to climb if you want me to hire. Don't get me going on showing up stinky/filthy.

I have been told I'm an easy boss. If you do the job, I'll leave you alone, and reward as much as possible. Unless someone is lying, breaking the rules, or being unsafe, you get nothing but smiles from me. The people I have fired have made it easy, going as far as giving me pleasure in sending their lazy, worthless carcass out the door.

I have also had my share of managers that would push people the wrong way just because they could. Everyone has bad days, a good manager understands that. I despise a boss that rides a good person, that is having a bad day, even more so if the attacks come from race, gender, personal issues. I have gone as far as deliberately taking down managers that over stepped their bounds. It has cost me dearly, but the exit interview was worth every bit of it.

[Serra Belvoule]

However, what I think must be remembered is: people are people, not robots.

As cliched as this may sound, I think it's the best way to put it.

[Mooshi]

You should all read this.

Working ONE WEEK a month at minimum wage will
benefit you better than working at a $60,000-a-
year, full-time, high-stress job in the United
States.

Kobuk's topic of America is lacking work ethic is correct, but there is so much of that he missed. Far beyond mear workplace chit chat, the article I've linked to shows the outrageous social services abuse. It's time we boot these leeches to the streets. There are people who legitimately can't work and then there are those who scam the system. Read for yourself how shocking the statistics are. Seems like you get punished for being responsible.