Poll

Should AR-15's be banned?

Yes, ban them.
4 (44.4%)
No, don't ban them.
5 (55.6%)
Undecided.
0 (0%)
Other response. Please make a post and explain.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: Why do people need an AR-15?  (Read 560 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Why do people need an AR-15?
« on: June 08, 2022, 04:08:44 pm »
Lots of news reports about AR-15's being used in mass shootings lately in America. And lots of talk (but not likely any action) in Congress about trying to get them banned.

So.........how do you feel about AR-15's? Own one or not? Ban them or not?

A few links for reading:


https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/05/opinions/guns-ar-15-uvalde-school-shooting-fanone/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/06/08/gun-owners-ar15-rifles-support-ac360-kaye-pkg-vpx.cnn

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/06/08/gun-safety-laws-congressmen-ar-15-age-restriction-manu-raju-newday-vpx.cnn

Offline cause the rat

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2022, 01:54:21 am »
What this country needs is better mental health support. Even free access. If most of these people got help with anger issues there would be far less gun violence. Anyone can talk about banning this or restricting that. No one is talking about the real issue. Guns do not kill people. People kill people. 
It's been said that rats can gain access to your home by climbing up threw your toilet. I prefer to use the front door.

Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2022, 11:07:56 am »
When a person is mad enough, or whatever it is, they may decide to reach for a thing that can inflict harm to themselves or others.
It could be a knife, sharp object, heavy thing, gun, or a car or chemical.  With intent to end their life to stop perceived suffering, or retaliate against those who made them feel that way.
Often those feeling are transitory, and just waiting can avert disaster.  Sometimes the feeling are persistent.
For those who have transitory issues, use the age-old trick of sending guns and such to family member for a few weeks.
For those who constantly want to hurt themselves and especially others, pro help and meds are in order.

It is true that mental health is an issue in USA, but also is elsewhere.  We have a gang-bully-agressive attitude here, which bothers me personally.  I feel America does not set in place a feeling and a system of caring, and thus many lose hope and feel abandoned.  If I lose my job, I am now homeless.  What now?  No one at all cares about a 40 year old white guy. No one.  So I know I am on my own, completely.  And to that end, would have to be forced to do things I do not want to do, like steal.  All this is said to point out how we are a cut-throat country at heart.  No one really cares about anyone.

There is stigma to mental health, and even if you get treatment, people are still acting on stigma.  Many sufferers know this, and do not seek treatment.  Employers would rather choose someone who they think has never had depression over someone who proudly has overcome it.
So if we have free mental health help, remove the stigma, and make it illegal to discriminate against them for it.  And enforce it.

But if we also put police at schools, is it school or is it a jail?
And what about when they age out of the schools, what then?  Who protects them then?
Shootings at churches, schools, hospitals, universities, grocery stores, concerts, nightclubs... hmm where does it end, where are you safe?

So it is natural to want to protect yourself from "them" by having equal weapon.  But have you killed before, are you truly ready?  Can you handle the burden of killing a human?  Will the law protect you in your time of self defense?  Can you prove that?  How much time will it take in court to prove you killed in self defense?  Will they hold your job for you all that time?  Will your family and neighbors think bad of you?
Will your life be worth living after killing the bad guy, even if it was justified?  What if you kill an innocent person in the process?  Have you heard the death rattle, and seen the shivering that often happens?  Can you stomach the smell of blood and will removing the carpet really remove the pain?  Good people will often want to protect themselves and family, understandable, but those same good people will die over and over inside from what they were forced to do.  But the criminals are not of that mind, they do not feel or care that way. 

The police have to think of this, and more.  They are trained, and have coordinated numbers on their side.  It is the job they took on.  Most people are not in that profession...

So when was the last time you saw a sword rampage, that killed 18 people at a school?  Or a grocery store where someone used a pitchfork?
There were a few incidents of poisons put into products to kill randomly.

When was the last time you heard of explosives being used to kill many?  Oh yeah that happened too, Oklahoma City Building.

So we banned access to certain poisons, and certain types and quantities of chemicals that could be used to make explosives.
Because they were used to inflict evil on innocent people in numbers.  Many places limit blade length because it can cause death quickly in larger numbers.  The supposed 3.5" limit.

If it were a war here, on our soil, we would need this type of person, the one who can make a bomb from fertilizer, or sneak poison into enemy food and water.  And people with powerful guns.
But there is supposed to be no war here, we are at peace.

So why not ban civilians from having an AR-15?  It was specifically designed to be used in war time to kill as many people as it can as fast as it can so the gunman can be force-multiplied, and damage enemy before the gunman get taken out.  If you want my hand gun, which was specifically designed for close quarters combat, I will surrender it to the police so they can use it.  I will gladly die for what I believe and I do not believe we need to put more power in the hands of people who have already proven time and time again they can not handle such power.

Troops, police, they are trained, supervised and held to a higher standard than the rest of us.  They are in harms way everyday as well.  They need the best.  They are generally honorable people who want to protect.
The people using the guns to kill kids, are none of that.  But that is not a mental health issue, it is lack of ethics and honor which is not illegal, just deplorable.

If we can't ban it, why not raise age limit?  Many people's brains are not really fully developed in terms of empathy and long term thinking for cause and effect until ... 25?
We have universities hazing kids with alcohol, and they get permanent brain damage from it and are a vegetable.  This shows the feeling of invincibility, lack of caring, and break down of cause and effect.
They did not care about fellow student, did not believe anything would happen, and thought it okay to impose themselves on others.  I also see this in Furry.  Kids having sex with literally as many as they can as often as they can, without regard to STD's. 
I know personally when I was around 25 I "wised up" and lost a lot of my desire to be mean etc, and could also handle others better without getting very upset. I matured.  So I do believe age is an issue.


Do we have a requirement for minimum age to be president? What is it and why?
If I could, I would say, wait till 25, buy what you want.  Also families, police your kids.

I am also for very strict and harsh and fast punishments for people who break laws. especially certain ones, or repeatedly.
We seem like a weak country , we do not enforce anything.

So we will talk, people here will fight me over what I said, and in the end, nobody will have the balls to stop the death.
Nothing will change.
I am glad I was born and when through school when I did.  I do not have to be in the firing line now.
I am also very glad I do not have any kids.  I don't want to watch them on TV blown to pieces by an AR-15, or  become a vegetable from alcohol poisoning in college.

I am not about removing 2nd amendment rights.  I want those who believe in it to police their own.
Put your money where your mouth is.  It is a huge responsibility.  If you want it to keep on and last, make sure it does, stop the bad apples now.
If that can't be done, things like bans will be thought of and discussed forever.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2022, 05:51:46 pm »
New article I just saw and read. And I kind of have to agree with it a bit. Maybe we should get rid of the 2nd Amendment.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/09/opinions/gun-reform-second-amendment-repeal-uvalde-shooting-press/index.html

Offline Chewy, God of Rats

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2022, 02:42:40 am »
Banning an AR-15 doesn't really change anything. Especially since AK47's, M1's and AAC's Blackouts, etc are much more accurate semi-automatic rifles. Makes me wonder if you're one of those people who thinks AR stands for Assault Rifle and not ArmaLite Rifle?
Either way, Guns Dont Kill People, People Kill People. I completely agree with Cause the mass shooting issues seem more like a mental health problem then a gun problem.

Also, in a follow up you said maybe we should repeal the 2nd Amendment. Why do you feel that way?
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2022, 07:47:41 pm »
Chewy, I'll have to send you a PM. Furtopia won't let me reply in this thread for some reason.

Offline Chewy, God of Rats

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2022, 09:06:25 pm »
Well Kobuk, you should consider reaching out to Furtopia's admin team to see if they can solve this problem you're having with replying. Seems pretty serious.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2022, 09:57:59 pm »
Ask yourself this: Why do we need the 2nd Amendment?

Most, but not all of the time, people will say we need that amendment to protect ourselves from an overreaching tyranical government. People need to think back to Colonial times over 200+ years ago and what society was like when that amendment was written/ratified. It actually wasn't written/ratified due to Britain invading American colonies and/or fear of an oppressive government. Though those two things probably did weigh on the minds of our Founding Fathers and may have helped in the creation of the 2nd Amendment. Some of the reasons for having the 2nd Amendment actually started way before the Revolutionary War.
Things like, but not limited to:
Indian attacks
Slave revolts/uprisings
Territory and trade disputes
Protection of people, towns, farmland, etc.

The first and second items above were the most important.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The more I look at and read that amendment, the more I begin to think it was not about allowing all citizens to buy, own, and use however many or types of guns they want. But rather about people forming citizen militias for the items I mentioned above. It is the right of the "citizen militia" to keep and bear arms to deal with the above threats that shall not be infringed.

Society in America has changed dramatically over the last nearly 250 years. But the United States Constitution.........and especially the 2nd Amendment..........hasn't.
The 2nd Amendment is an ancient artifact of a bygone era. There are no more Indian attacks. No more slave uprisings. And no more territory disputes and so on. The 2nd Amendment is so vague and poorly written that it hasn't been updated to keep pace with changes in 19th, 20th, and now 21st century America.

We are not living in Colonial times anymore. So why have the 2nd Amendment? And again, people will go back to the same answer of the citizens overthrowing an oppressive government. But is our government really that bad?
If our Federal government really wanted to be tyranical and oppress the people, they would have done it long, long ago by now. The fact that they haven't is not necessarily because of people having guns. But because of the checks and balances we have in our government, the ability of people to vote and protest, freedom of press and speech, and so much more. Granted, not everything is perfect (and nothing ever will be), but I don't see any troops on street corners, do you?

We need to either abolish the 2nd Amendment or it needs to be rewritten.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 10:43:17 pm by Kobuk »

Offline Chewy, God of Rats

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2022, 01:56:50 am »
Well I'm glad to see you were able to figure out how to reply. Congratulations!

Furthermore, I personally don't think the reason for the 2nd Amendment to remain has anything to do with a tyrannical government.

But I find a few of the statements you've made to be kind of misleading and or racist.

You said the government isn't really that bad, which I mean I agree with you.

However, for you to say or imply that the government hasn't been or isn't tyrannical and oppressive is beyond ignorant and blatantly racist sir.  Even CNN, the news media you used as a source, says our own government is oppressive and has a history of being oppressive and tyrannical, especially towards people of color and women.

example sources of CNN stating systemic racism and oppression by our systems of power and or government: https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/us/systemic-racism-coronavirus-pandemic-trnd/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/17/opinions/systemic-racism-in-the-us-history-effect-landrieu/index.html
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2022, 12:05:43 pm »
Chewy, I'm sorry if some of my comments in my post came off as racist. That wasn't my intent. I kind of rushed through typing my post last night and didn't quite explain things like I wanted.
What I kind of wanted to say was that our government isn't the type that people see in those dystopian/authoritarian movies or books, etc. I don't think we're anywhere near that. I mean, there's no fences or walls seperating Nevada from Utah, right? You don't need travel documents to cross state lines. We're sure as hell nowhere like North Korea or China. And those are two of the worst dictatorial countries I can think of. They tell you what to think, what to read, what to wear, where you can go, and so on and so forth. Is America anything like that? Far from it. So for all the people complaining about overthrowing a tyrannical American government, ask yourself if it is really as bad as what you've seen in dystopian movies and books, or as bad as some other dictatorial countries in the world. Yes, we do have problems. But does that always mean we have to grab our guns and shout at the top of our lungs that we need to overthrow our government? I don't believe so.

Anyway, getting back to the AR-15 issue...........

There is no reason whatsoever for civilians to have them. They are a weapon mainly used by the Military and Police forces.
You can't go hunting with it.
There's no zombie apocalypse or alien attack happening where you'd need one.

It's just too much firepower to be having.
If a person needs one to protect him/herself and/or their possessions, I think it's overkill. I mean, if your house is being robbed by 1-2 individuals, couldn't a regular 9mm gun do the same job? Why get an AR-15 with a 20 or more round clip to prevent a burglar from stealing your tv or whatever? It just doesn't make sense.

Offline Chewy, God of Rats

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2022, 02:23:50 pm »
You know what I can see your point and even agree with you that the United States government is no where near as dystopian or tyrannical as a lot of these gun nuts portray it to be. The people in this country who think the government is so tyrannical and have this almost delusion of America being a dystopian nightmare are just out of there mind. However, there are examples like what I brought up in my last reply; of government overreach so I to an extent see why some people way have this crazy belief that our government is creating a dystopian nightmare.
So in summary I see your point and completely agree.

As for the AR-15 issue,
Your completely wrong about the AR-15 being used by the military. The AR-15 is not a military weapon. The AR-15 was actually designed for civilian usage and while it is comparable to a military grade m-16 these are two different weapons. An M-16 is fully-automatic, .30-06 round rifle, where as an AR-15 is a semi-automatic and uses a .223 or 5.56 round bullet. A .30-06 bullet cartridge causes more damage, bigger ballistics spread, and is more deadly than a .223 or 5.56 round cartridge.

In summary, an AR-15 is literally not a military weapon in fact it is less powerful, less damaging, and was designed for civilian usage.

As for the firepower being too much.
Debatable in some situations. Hunting wise, a .223 round cartridge weapon like an AR-15 is considered a cheaper, less damaging alternative to that of .270 or .30-06 weapons that are commonly used for hunting small to midsize game. For protection, an AR-15 would be more efficient while also being less physical damaging to the robbers for home defense than a shotgun(yes, it will kill them but in context a small bullet hole vs a midsize bullet hole from a shotgun).

As for why people should get AR-15 with 20 or more round clips thats a valid point and I honestly don't have a defense for needing 20+ rounds for home defense or hunting.

Lastly,

You make a lot of claims in your posts and replies without sources for said claims, I would love sources or context on where you come up with some of your statements as based on an overview of your posts and replies you've made throughout the years I'm starting to think you like to either misrepresent things or just blatantly make things up to because you want to be right. Instead of actually having a debate and conversation.

Sources on AR-15, M-16 and Military: https://thundertactical.com/the-differences-between-the-m16-and-the-ar-15/, https://selfevident.substack.com/p/self-evident-podcast-ep-9-military?s=r#details

Sources on .223 rounds and 5.56 rounds and hunting: https://www.wideopenspaces.com/3-best-calibers-for-hunting-hogs/, https://www.foundryoutdoors.com/blogs/caliber-ballistics-comparison/223-remington-vs-30-06-springfield-ammo-comparison-ballistics-info-chart,

Sources on ballistics and a chart of round sizes: https://smhs.gwu.edu/icu/sites/icu/files/Ballistics.pdf, https://www.highcalibercreations.com/caliber-size-charts/
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 07:02:11 pm by Chewy, God of Rats »
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2022, 08:38:50 pm »
Chewy, my opinions on the AR-15 are just that.........opinions. Not really based on any charts, diagrams, links, reports, documents, articles, etc., etc., etc.
They're just opinions based on my observations on what I see and hear every day.
Like I said, I just don't see the need for civilians to have such a powerful weapon. Period.

Now, as for mental illness and guns..........

I keep hearing from time to time how the public would like local, state, and the Federal governments to do more for mental illness when it comes to guns and mass shootings. Sure, the government can help in some ways. But the first line of defense isn't our government. It's us. You, me, friends, family, neighbors, coworkers, etc., etc. We need to be more proactive and less reactive when it comes to dealing with a person's mental health and/or if they decide to take any drastic measures with a gun. Granted, we're not councilors, therapists, and doctors. But we need to watch out for signs that a person might exhibit that might make them use a gun in a dangerous way and hurt him/herself or others. Or sometimes, we just need to offer the person a shoulder to cry on or an ear they can talk to.



Offline Chewy, God of Rats

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2022, 04:43:29 am »
Well Kobuk, what can say?
I completely agree that your opinions are just opinions.

I guess I expected something different this time. But here we are just another typical post made by Kobuk. Starts up with a topic, usually based on an article he reads and cites and usually ends with either a question or a statement.

To which is always followed up giving a defensive stance on said statement (or I guess opinion) when a different opinion is made or when asked to elaborate on said topic. 

And lastly, here we are with the classic follow up of completely dismissing the topic and statements made on said topic by moving on to something else to further repeat this cycle.

The Kobuk Post Cycle of starting a new topic, getting a response, getting defensive, becoming completely dismissive, moving on, making new topic or statement (or I guess opinion).

Do you ever get tired of this? I haven't been here that long and I already find this to be a real buzz kill.

Maybe the next one will different or maybe it'll just continue while replies, interactions, and active members here continues to become lower and lower.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 04:50:04 am by Chewy, God of Rats »
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2022, 10:18:38 am »
Chewy, I don't know what the heck you expect from people, either here on the forums or in real life. But I find your whole post to be insulting.  >:(
People, whether it's me or anybody else, can choose to reply to a topic, post, etc. or not. There's no rule that says I have to reply to "your standards" of conversation.
People can choose to reply to a topic with a little information or a lot.
They can choose to post links or not.

I've said what I've pretty much wanted to say in my thread. If my posts and level of conversation doesn't meet with your "approval" and levels of conversation, then too bad.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 05:03:22 pm by Kobuk »

Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2022, 12:13:11 pm »
I would like to see people who desire the power that these guns can provide, police their own.  Make NRA about safety, and return to the roots of what you were.  Time and again certain weapons seem to be used in these mass shootings, and this is why people talk about banning them.  Why are these weapons a seemingly preferred choice by bad-doers?

Parents, give your kids the finger and say "you stink, you don't get to use this" (or something).  Lock it up.  And remember kids are smarter than you.

Owners, use responsibly, do not let kids use them. Anyone remember the ghastly video showing a young girl firing an automatic weapon and it blows her instructors brains out?  I remember.

Sellers, treat it like a privilege to own one, scrutinize people and make reasons they can't get one/do checks.  Sleep on it.  Mandatory 3 day wait.  No one needs one RIGHT AWAY.
( I can say that because I was threatened by neighbor with death, I ran to gun store, told them, they hooked me up with a 9mm within 3 hours and I went home)  ( I could have waited, i acted in fear and anger.  i wholly wanted to kill him.  A month after I got away from him, I was back to normal.  Humans are emotional)

Mental cases, get help.  You don't need ways to harm self or others.  If you don't want help go crawl off and be by yourself.

Kids, America does not care about you, and it is proven time and again.  And once you age out of schools, and are an adult, no one at all cares at all. 
Movie theaters, stores, churches, colleges, military bases, concerts, all are good places to get shot at.  And it will happen again because no one wants to solve it.

I would prefer a weapon that is "tuned" to blast a person and stop them, no more.  Pulverize the perv and not the child in the other room.  No jail full of freaks who have a tiny hole in them.  Just blow them away. 
What does that take?  Maybe  not these types of weapons.  M-16, AR-15, whatever they are called.  So maybe a lower power shot gun , or ??  to stop a person in the home break in.
Wouldn't the AR-15 shoot through the person, and potentially get someone else behind them?

So while I know these weapons may have uses, are there other alternatives that are better for home defense, and less amenable to mass shootings?
Like lower power, shorter range?  Do you defend your house from 500 yards?  Is your house long like a bowling alley?  do you need the long range precision in that scenario?
so yeah, sawed off shot gun lower power, swing, point shoot move on
...and in fact, maybe best to just get out of the house ...

I am tired of it all.
If it were put to a vote to the American public I will vote.  How that is , I will keep quiet.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2022, 03:03:34 pm »
Jade, the NRA used to be a org all about gun maintenance and safety. They would hold local gun meets and teach gun owners. Not the useless trash they are now. I was a member when they were still respectable. I know gun owners who were members and will have nothing to do with them now.

The debate whether or not someone should own something. Owning something does not make that thing dangerous. Why own it? Because you can. I've collected antique Christmas items for well over 40 years now. Both secular and religious. If I was told that I could no longer own things that were dangerous I would have to get rid of a lot of my collection.  Mercury, lead, cyanide, ground glass, spent uranium, cadmium, cobalts and a host of other materials that where used between the mid 1800's to the late 70's. Mental heath is the answer. Get rid of the trump ere shutdown and defunding and start helping these people.
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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2022, 08:50:29 pm »
Because they look cool and are fun to shoot.

AR-15s are about as deadly as sighted semi-automatic pistols with extended magazines since they lack the full auto setting that the military's M4 rifles have.

Heck, more Americans are murdered by people with handguns or knives every year than people with rifles.

https://www.criminalattorneycolumbus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/weapons-commonly-used-homicides.png

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2022, 11:28:28 pm »
Quote
Because they look cool and are fun to shoot.

If those were/are the only reasons people used for having an AR-15 (or other type of gun), then those are the stupidest reasons in the whole history of human existance. Saying that just makes me think the person is not a responsible gun owner. If those were the only excuses people used for having a gun, then you just lost any respect (If any) I had for you as a gun owner.  >:(

Offline Chewy, God of Rats

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2022, 12:30:18 am »

AR-15s are about as deadly as sighted semi-automatic pistols with extended magazines since they lack the full auto setting that the military's M4 rifles have.

In the case of a AR-15 with .223 rounds this is fairly accurate, but in the case of an AR-15 with a 5.56 round, the 5.56 is more lethal.

https://huntingheart.com/5-56-vs-9mm/
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Offline Chewy, God of Rats

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2022, 12:54:15 am »
If those were/are the only reasons people used for having an AR-15 (or other type of gun), then those are the stupidest reasons in the whole history of human existance. Saying that just makes me think the person is not a responsible gun owner. If those were the only excuses people used for having a gun, then you just lost any respect (If any) I had for you as a gun owner.  >:(

This seems unnecessarily aggressive and insulting.

Did you know according to the NIH confusion is usually is leading cause of aggression?
Confusion based aggression is actually a sign of low intellectual function, according to HRW and NIH.

Cheers(:

Sources: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3820075/, https://www.psypost.org/2018/08/angry-people-are-more-likely-to-overestimate-their-intelligence-study-finds-51890, https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/ustat/ustat0301-01.htm
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Offline Storm Fox

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2022, 07:47:17 am »
Alright everybody.. getting a little heated in here.
Disagreements are one thing, but let's knock it off with the jabs at one and other and please keep rule #1 in mind when you post.
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Please be respectful of both the staff and your fellow members at all times. Insulting, attacking, slandering, or harassing anyone will not be tolerated.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2022, 01:48:05 pm »
Chewy (and/or anybody else) : If any of my comments in this thread come off as me being 100% against guns, No, I am not. I do support people wanting to buy and use guns, gun accessories, etc. depending on type, function, and so forth.
But when people abuse their right to own and use a firearm and do not in any way respect that firearm and learn safety, and especially RESPONSIBILITY for using that firearm, then that's where I draw the line.  >:(
It's completely sad what America has come to with gun usage. There are times when I almost wish our Founding Fathers were alive and could see what has become of this country and the way some people are abusing not just guns in general, but also the 2nd Amendment. I really do think that if they were alive right now, they'd want to revoke the 2nd Amendment from the Constitution.

As I've said before, the 2nd Amendment needs to be abolished or drastically rewritten. It's an "ancient artifact" of a previous time in American history that hasn't been updated to take into account of more modern times.

Offline Alex

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2022, 07:55:28 pm »
Quote
Because they look cool and are fun to shoot.

If those were/are the only reasons people used for having an AR-15 (or other type of gun), then those are the stupidest reasons in the whole history of human existance. Saying that just makes me think the person is not a responsible gun owner. If those were the only excuses people used for having a gun, then you just lost any respect (If any) I had for you as a gun owner.  >:(

Wow, rude. I'm actually a very responsible gun owner.

While we're making assumptions about people though, I'm going to assume that you're just a gun grabber that didn't read past the first line of my post because I didn't agree with you.



AR-15s are about as deadly as sighted semi-automatic pistols with extended magazines since they lack the full auto setting that the military's M4 rifles have.

In the case of a AR-15 with .223 rounds this is fairly accurate, but in the case of an AR-15 with a 5.56 round, the 5.56 is more lethal.

https://huntingheart.com/5-56-vs-9mm/

Yeah, thats true.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2022, 06:40:21 pm »
If Storm Fox is reading this, please lock this thread from further discussion. If possible, can you please leave the Poll itself open for further voting?

In conclusion..........

Should AR-15's (and/or any other types of guns and gun supplies) be taken away from people? Can they? Let me give people a bit of an analogy:

It's kind of like when you were a little kid playing with your toys. If you were playing with your toys badly and abusing them, your parents may have had to take them away from you until you learned to play with them responsibly. The same can almost be said with guns. We may (or may not) have played with our "toys" (Guns) responsibly during the early periods of America growing up. But as the years and decades wore on, we seem to have lost responsibility and "lost our way" for how we owned and used guns, and disregarded the "knowledge, education, training, and safety" that comes with learning how to own and use a gun.
And now we face the time where our Parent (Federal Government) is shaking their finger at the "kids" (Public) and telling us that if we don't behave and use our toys responsibly, then they are going to take away our toys or at least make it harder for us to play with them. Is that what you really want?

If we really want to have less gun control laws in this country and look better in the eyes of our Parents (Federal Government), then we need to take it upon ourselves to act responsibly in how we own and use guns. By learning ourselves and teaching and showing others how to safely and responsibly use guns, maybe we can get the Parent to get off our backs a little bit and cut us some slack. Know what I mean?  Gun Control = Self Control.

And lastly, it's not always the Federal Gov't that wants to take away a person's gun and gun rights. Hardly a day doesn't go by when I constantly hear or read how gun owners blame the government for guns being taken away and so forth. That's not always the case. It's not just the government, but also the average ordinary citizen who wants to see guns taken away or more gun control measures put in place.
It can be, but not limited to:
Taxi driver
Librarian
Child Day Care worker
Doctor
Bank teller
Pool cleaner
Dog groomer
Pizza delivery person
Friends
Family
Neighbors
.........and so many others.
Sometimes, it's the everyday ordinary people who petition and protest the government to do more and enact more gun control measures and to take away guns. Not just the government itself.

The End.

Offline Storm Fox

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Re: Why do people need an AR-15?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2022, 05:09:26 am »
If Storm Fox is reading this, please lock this thread from further discussion.

Umm... Kobuk, sorry but I think it's a bit unfair to lock an active topic just because a couple of people have disagreed with you, and this isn't what I would call a personal thread where such a request would take precedent.
I will confer with the staff to see if they feel differently on the matter.
But so long as everyone can keep their cool and discuss things respectfully, there should be no reason to lock this.
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