Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.

[cause the rat]

I love home made bread. A few simple ingredients and techniques. A bit of time and patients. You end up with flavor that is unapproachable by any mass produced bread. With nothing more than slight changes between recipes. Adding butter. shortening or eggs and you end up with even more flavors and textures. Unlike store bought bread home made really doesn't last that long.  A few days to a week at best. It's flavor becoming deeper as it ages. But the crumb starts to fall apart. And it molds easily.

A bit of history. I have damage to my right wrist so kneading dough can become difficult for me. So I looked for gadgets. The KitchenAid 600 Professional was highly recommended. Found it on line at a real store for more than half off. Before Christmas sale. Gave myself an awesome Christmas gift. Making bread with this is a dream. Then a few years later I was at an auction. There was a Cuisinart DCL-20011 stainless steal food processor. Still in it's box. The lid had been opened but nothing was ever taken out. The tape was still on the CD. I thought there was no way I'd be able to bid on and win this $330 piece of kitchen equipment. Boy was I wrong. I took it home for the grand total of $18.00. For all you math geeks that a bit under 94.5% off.  Between the two the food processor takes less time. But is harder to control and actually see what's going on. Still they both make great bread. But if your perfectly healthy and willing you really don't need either piece of equipment. This naturally leads to the topic of bread machines. The wife and I had one. Used it a few times. If it's what you got and you like it. Go for it. If your looking to make bread and you don't have one. Good.

I have a favorite bread. This bread takes six rising times. The over all flavor of this white bread is dark and very rich. I have others that I like. But this is my favorite. With each new recipe I try I get a new flavor and texture. I tend to stay away from breads that will have an open airy texture. They are really only good for eating by the slice. Tend to not slice thin well and really sloppy for sandwiches.  What i look for in a home made loaf is something that will hold it's shape in the bottom of a soup or stew bowl. And stay together when eaten as a sandwich.

Books. Is it worth getting a bread only book? Nope. Those recipes are no better than the ones you'll find in a catch all book like "Fanny Farmers", "Good Housekeeping" or "The Joy of cooking". And plenty of recipes at places like "Recipes.com". For learning you can find more than you'll ever need on Youtube.  Now there are exceptions. I have a bread book for the gadget geek. Each recipe is written for the by hand, by stand mixer and by food processor. There is major differences in how the ingredients have to be handled. I'd recommend that book,
"Bernard Clayton's new complete book of Breads. Revised and Expanded." If your really getting into the artisan breads then getting a few good books would be worth it. 'Flour water salt yeast", "The Bread Bakers Apprentice" and the like. 

and speaking of books.
I've heard about this. Even watched some demos on Youtube. Bread you don't have to knead. You make the dough, stick it in the fridge and use when you want it. And to make it even more tantalizingly easy you don't even need bread flour. Good ol 'all purpose is all you need. So I bought into it. Yep I bought a book. And today I tried it. Made a single batch. Divided it in half. One half is now sleeping in the fridge. The other? After no needing and only one rather long rising time and a shorter time in the pan. All following directions. Went right into a very hot oven with steam. Nothing elaborate. Just a metal pan with water in it. I ended up with one very nice looking but as flavorless as store bought loaf of bread. The crust, thanks to the steam, is thick and crackly. But without any flavor. Of all the bread that I have ever made this is the biggest disappointment. However, to give the devil his due, the book does say the longer the dough sits in the icebox the better the flavor. All the way up to a 'sort of' sour dough. Which makes sense. I do have dough rotting in my fridge.  So here's the actual purpose for this thread. I'm going to make the second half of this batch in a few days. I'm also going to make a second batch, divide that one in half. Keep both halves in the fridge even longer. Make each loaf and compare them for both flavor and texture. See if all this hype is actually true. Then type in my opinions.

I'm not giving up on the tried and true. it's made wonderful and diverse breads for a few thousand years now.

So for my review of icebox bread.
Day one.
Baking the dough the same day you make it is a waste of time. Completely flavorless.

[cause the rat]

So this is where it's all at right now. Just got home from work and decided to make the second loaf. According to the directions it has to warm up for an hour and a half before I put it in the oven. Then it cooks for 45 minutes. I'll let it cool a bit and give it a taste. If this bread still have no flavor I'm not going to bother making more batches.  I still have some of the first loaf so I'll get a great side by side comparison. If however the second loaf has flavor I'll make a full batch tomorrow. That'll be enough for two more loaves of bread. Let it fridge for three days and make one loaf. Leaving the remaining dough in for a few days more. The book says this can stay in the fridge for up to 14 days. But by then there could be lots of problems. I don't plan on turning yeasted flour into hairy cheese in my fridge any time soon. 

[cause the rat]

My review, loaf number two.
I've never had bread that smelt like over cooked popcorn before. Very slight flavor. I didn't steam this loaf. Still has a nice crust. Just no flavor.

Looks like this is going to be a short lived experiment. Bread isn't just a collection of ingredients. It's how it's handled. This idea is appealing. Because it takes less time and work than traditional bread. Take a hunk of dough out of the fridge. Stick it in the oven and have fresh bread every day. Not jut fresh bread. Bread resembling loaves that came right out of an old European oven. This would be great for kids. Impressive for get togethers and the holidays. The book is titled "5 minutes a day". Ninety minutes to let it warm up. Then forty five minutes to cook is hardly five minutes a day. Not sure where they come up with that number.  In the end it looks good. It's easy to do. It's convenient and a bit of fun. And it does resemble home made bread.

The book is full of other bread recipes. Even starters for making sour dough and the like. This is their 'Master' recipe. The one all the others are based off of. Perhaps the extra work it takes to make the other breads will result in flavorful loaves. May go back and try a few in the future. For now it's back to the tried and true. With kitchen gadgets. 

[cause the rat]

So, OK I'm still posting here because let's face it. I'm really bummed out about this fridge bread thing. I don't really want to discourage any of you from trying it. It is still fun. it is still better than not making anything. And because it's home made you'll enjoy it more than store bought. And it's still better than buying a one trick pony called a bread machine.

For those interested in home made bread I'd like to leave a link. "The Bread Channel"

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBreadKitchen

There hasn't been anything new for over two years. But what a wealth of information.

[cause the rat]

Decided today to open a cook book I've had for more than 30 years. "From Julia Child's Kitchen". Wanted to see if there was a real version of the French baguette. Ever one I've seen on you tube is different. Not really a fan of this bread. Great curst and flavor. Awesome to eat with a meal. But full of large holes inside. Not that good for sandwiches.The book has a very limited,  22 pages out of almost 700. Only six recipes, section on bread. To my surprise there is a sandwich bread recipe. And I've learned something new by reading it. Most bread recipes call for the dough to rase two times. I can refrigerate the dough derring or after each rise. And freeze it after each rise. Never knew that. I've also learned something else. I didn't need to spend $$ on a few bread pans with their own lids. I could have made flat top bread like smarter people than me have done for a long time now. Put a flat pan on top of the bread pans and weigh it down. 

[cause the rat]

Well we're right back to the refrigerator again. But with something new. I'm going to search around the net to see if there's info on this.  if it works this is my plan. Going to make four loaves this weekend. Try two more recipes. I'm also going to make a batch of my favorite bread. Take it all the way to the final in the pan rise. And freeze the loaves. Take em out of the pans, put em in plastic and store them till I run out of bread. Then see how they turn out. This would be totally awesome. They should take up to two hours to come to room temp. Could even take them out of the freezer and into the icebox so they'll warm up to cold the night before. I've got my hopes up. Now to hope reality lets me down. 

[Varg the wanderer]

Can you post pictures? I love baking, and seeing the fruits of your labors would be great. Or you could bottle the smells and mail them, just skip the refrigerator bread smells

[cause the rat]

Totally awesome Varg! If I could bottle the smell of home made bread I'd make a fortune. Just the smell of the yeast in the dough as it's being kneaded is worth a bottle or two. Unfortunately I don't have an on line picture program. I do have photo bucket. But they've become a pay to play site. I can't see being charged for my pictures so I'm not playing along. Have no idea how to get pic. to this site.

Going to do a battle of the beliefs today. Make bread from an old Shaker and an old Amish recipe.

[cause the rat]

Sorry about that I had to get back into the kitchen. I got the Shaker bread on it's first rise.

How to make Authentic European bread flour.

To get a flour that is close to what was actually available in both England and Europe you'll need to mix three parts unbleached all purpose with one part bread flour. I've also learned years ago that European flour is slightly moister than ours. So mixing in a bit of fat, butter or even better, vegetable shortening will bring it closer to their flour as well. If you ever do come across very old recipes and want the authentic look and taste this would be the way to go. The best bread flour is grown right here in America. Then shipped all over the world. All your newer bread recipes have adapted the use of this flour.

The difference in bread between all purpose and bread flour. You can make nice tasting loaves with all purpose flour. The only real difference would be in the structure of the baked bread itself. However I wouldn't try using all purpose when making bread not baked in a pan. Stand alone bread needs tension to hold it's shape. The higher gluten of bread flour, or the bread/all purpose mix will allow you to get that. Without good outer tension you may end up with a large flat loaf.

I've yet to make long or round loaves of bread so I can only go by what I've seen or read. Really want to try a few braided and some cool looking round ones. May even try more open or holy bread like the French Baguette.

It simply amazes me. Just how many different flavors of bread you can get with just four ingredients. Flour, yeast, salt and water.

[cause the rat]

My first day thoughts on the two belief breads. The Shaker bread hand two rising times. Once in a bowel and once in the pans.  A very light crust. Nice internal crumb and nice but light flavor. The Amish bread had three rise times. Twice in the bowel and once in the pans. Not sure what happened but the third rise took twice as long to get to size. Then fell somewhat in the oven. The crust is darker and thick with a great flavor. This bread has a better yeasty flavor than the Shaker. Both breads however are two sweet for my taste. Neither bread had a proof time or 'starter' for the yeast. This would have greatly reduced the sugar available to flavor the baked loaf. The Shaker bread takes two tablespoons of sugar. The Amish uses 1/3 cup. That's a lot of sugar.

Bread is always better on the second day. This gives the flavors time to set up. So I'll do a comparison tomorrow as well.

I'm keeping one loaf of each bread out to eat. The second is in the freezer. I'll start on them sometime mid week. See how well they held up. Will have to wait till tomorrow to make and freeze the 'Egg Harbor Bread' dough. Kind of to late tonight to mess with a dough that takes six rising times. But man do I LOVE that bread.

[cause the rat]

Second day assessment on both the Amish and Shaker  breads. Both are two sweet for me. I did locate some other Amish breads on line. All are called sweet and have large amounts of sugar in their recipes. Shaker bread recipes ran the gauntlet from really sweet to normal. The recipe known as Egg Harbor Bread, my all time favorite hearty flavor bread, is a modified old Shaker recipe. I really like the texture and ease of the sweet Shaker bread from these two breads I just made.. I could modify this by making a sponge. This is where you add the sugar to the water/yeast mixture. Then mix in one or two cups of flour. Mix well and let it all sit for 10 minutes. Most of the sugar will be eaten by the yeast. Then mix in the milk and Crisco. Then add the salt right before mixing in the remaining flour to make the dough. I've actually came across bread recipes that say to add the salt to the wet/yeast mixture. Folks this is a bad idea. Salt kills yeast. But you need to have salt in bread. Without it the bread is bland. Oils such as lard or shortening will also effect yeast. So adding them after you allow the yeast to bloom is a good idea. You could always try the oils both ways. See if there is any real difference in your bread. But never add salt directly to a yeast mix your going to let sit. Stir it in just before adding the flour.

Something interesting I've found in old bread recipes. I have a cook book who's original copy right date is 1901. And one old cook book printed in 1967. Their bread recipes call for scalding milk. That's where you heat milk up to a boil for a few seconds. Then let it cool before using it. Piecing this together with remembering store bought milk lasted for only a few days before going sour when I was a kid. To today where I can drink out of the jug for a good week. Perhaps there were more bacteria in the milk in the 60's and 70's. Where today, with better pasteurization these are no longer present. I also have an old bread recipe that doesn't call for any yeast. instead it relies on the yeast in the air to ferment  the dough. I'll pass on that one.  I do have good information from plenty of reliable sources  about natural regional yeasts. San Francisco sourdough bread can only be made in San Fransisco. If you take a starter or munster ( that's like the sponge I mentioned above. Only weeks or years older ) out of that area. Bring that starter to your town. Say here in mid MO. The bread will get yeast from the air as you make it. The starter will also get indigenous yeasts from your location. Then quickly go from San Francisco sour dough to your town sour dough. In turn we can both use the same flour and yeast. But our breads will always have a slightly different flavor to them. For the very same reason.  It's nature. Nature is awesome.

[cause the rat]

What I did today instead of what I planned.  You know how it goes. 

Decided to go ahead and modify the Shaker recipe. Not by the ingredients but how they're put together. Made the sponge like I talked about in the above post. Then added the salt and Crisco as I was adding the rest of the flour. What a difference that made. Same finished look and tight crumb. Better flavor. More yeasty and bread like with only a hint of sweet. This of corse is the first day. Tomorrow the flavors will intensify and i'll know more. 

I have an old food encyclopedia. "Larousse Gastronomique" This was originally written in French. The 1961 book I have is some what in English. I say somewhat because most of the French cooking terms are not translated. Think of it as an encyclopedia on everything cooking. Or in this case everything French cooking. With some hints of recipes. But always French opinions on what good food should be. Here's a sample. I can't use the fancy hyphens so it'll all be in western.

Estouffade of Partridge a la cevenole.
Stuff the partridge with fine pork forcemeat mixed with one-third of it's weight of forcemeat a gratin and a teaspoon of chopped truffles......

In this instants the book has 43 variations on cooking partridge without giving a single recipe.  Including partridge souffle'.  Hundreds of variations for cooking beef and chicken. Way more than you would find in any single cookbook. But not a single one as a recipe.

If it is or was used in a French kitchen or anything to do with France it's in this book. Tools, techniques, seasonings and all. Towns, land marks, history.  Got this book at an auction years ago. In a box of stuff I wanted. Kept it for fun.

[Kobuk]

Since you're making all this bread and making everybody hungry here, I think you should make everybody some sandwiches.     I'd like a roast beef and swiss on rye, please. 

[cause the rat]

Sorry Kobuk. Have to get someone else to make you some rye bread. Not a big can of it. But if I had some I'd stick it in an envelope with a good slab of roast beef and send it on it's way! Wont have to put cheese on it. Imagine by the time it makes it to your house it'll of made it's own. Can't promise it's nationality. But if you let it sit in the envelope long enough you might be able to ask it yourself. 

Home made bread doesn't stay as moist as store bought. Doesn't have the same level of grease or oils in it. If your going to store sandwiches it's a good idea to remember to rehydrate the bread a bit. A good spin in a microwave may be all you need.

[Kobuk]

Sorry Kobuk. Have to get someone else to make you some rye bread. Not a big can of it. But if I had some I'd stick it in an envelope with a good slab of roast beef and send it on it's way! Wont have to put cheese on it. Imagine by the time it makes it to your house it'll of made it's own. Can't promise it's nationality. But if you let it sit in the envelope long enough you might be able to ask it yourself. 

Somehow, the visual impression I'm getting from that doesn't seem very appetizing. 

[cause the rat]

But Kobuk. Think of the new flavor combos you could enjoy before it kills you! 

The real secret to making bread. This is the part I see most people having the biggest problem with. The amount of flour to use. The secret? Let the dough decide what it needs. That's it. No complicated weighing or figuring percentages. In each recipe it gives an amount. Say 6 cups. If the dough is still wet you add a bit more flour. If the dough is two dry don't force more flour into it. If your dough ends up two dry add  water a table spoon at a time till it moistens up. It doesn't take take two much to make a dough right. The best part is even if the dough is a bit sticky or dry it will still make bread. Bread is not that complicated. How it's done. If your kneading by hand. Put bread flour on your work surface. As you knead the dough will pick up flour to counteract it's stickiness. If on the other hand the bread dough feels stiff and a tablespoon of water at a time till it become pliable again.

I keep my house between 35 to 50% humidity. This is because of my allergies. So by any standards the air in my house is dryer than most. When I make bread it does effect the amount of flour i use. If the recipe calls for six cups I usually end up only using five and a half. If your house is at a moor natural humidity level you'll use more flour. The air and weather have a lot to do with this. So if you make the same bread all the time you will notice the differences.

In the process of thawing a frozen loaf. According to all the info I've read it should be as good as the fresh one. Will let you know. Still haven't had the time to make and freeze uncooked bread. Will have to try that soon.

[cause the rat]

Every white bread recipe has these four ingredients. Flour, water, yeast and salt. So why the rest?
Sugar,
Milk,
Nonfat Dry Milk,
Shortening,
Lard,
Vegetable oil,
Olive oil,
Butter,
Eggs,

Each additional ingredient not only effects the taste but the texture of the bread.  The first thing I looked up is eggs. Yep. There are websites out there that have this information. I LOVE the web.  Eggs add protein, structure, water and a "richness" to bread. My favorite bread calls for one egg. Guess it would have to be made with out the egg to tell the difference. OK, thats not going to happen. I really love that bread like it is.

Fats like shortening, lard, butter and cooking oils add texture and moistness to the bread. I recently watched a 'Martha Stewart Bakes' episode where she said that lard is better than shortening. Because lard is 100% fat. Crazy old lady. Shortening is also 100% fat.  Shortening has a second advantage. It will never taste like pork. I've also learned that butter cooks differently than other fats. It melts faster so it's structurally weaker. And unlike shortening or lard it adds water.

Sugar. I thought sugar was just there to feed the yeast and sweeten the loaf. As it turns out sugar also changes the texture of bread. Because sugar competes and wins with water it lightens up the gluten content. Just like in cake you have a less structured more crumbly bread.

Milk and Nonfat Dry Milk. In my search I found one site that states they are interchangeable and indistinguishable in flavor. I'm guessing someone has never actually drank this stuff. They will not act the same in bread. The milk fat acts like a tenderizer and, like butter, interferes with the production of gluten. A softer loaf of bread.  I want to try a few breads that call for nonfat dry milk. So I bought some. This stuff is not cheap. Hopefully it's worth it. Cuz I aint drinking it. Tastes like soured milk. As far as scalded milk goes? I was right!! it was all about killing things in the milk itself. So if your bread recipe calls for scalded milk use warmed milk instead. it's all good.

It still amazes the heck out of me. Just a slight change in a single ingredient or procedure and you end up with a different flavored bread.

[cause the rat]

Something else I thought I'd through in. Because I'm still on that high protein diet.

Average protein in homemade white bread.
8.7 grams a slice.
Average protein in store bought white bread,
2.7 grams.

Tastes better. Better for you. Really not that hard to make.

[cause the rat]

The bread that came out of the freezer.
The only difference was the crust was a bit stiffer. The bread itself, texture and flavor is just as good. I first wrapped the loaf in cling wrap. Then in aluminum foil.

[cause the rat]

Pulled a second loaf out of the freezer.  The first unthawed loaf was Amish. This loaf is a Shaker recipe. I'll let you know if there is any degradation in the taste or texture of this loaf.

I keep kicking around the idea of trying that no kneed refrigerator bread again. This time let it sit for a week before baking. Hopefully it'll get past that funky overcooked pop corn smell the last loaf had. Ok you caught me. I really do like kicking a dead horse.

[cause the rat]

The second frozen then thawed loaf. Really good! Same great taste and texture. The crust is a bit more flaky but doesn't in anyway take away from the bread.

Made four more loaves today. All four from my modified Shaker recipe. Two loaves I rolled out and make cinnamon swirl bread. Turned out really good.

Because I modified the recipe I can now call it my own.

Rat Bread.

1 package dry yeast.
1 1/4 cup warm water.
1 cup warm milk
1 tablespoon sugar
1 teaspoon salt
4 tablespoons shortening. At room temperature. 
Up to 7 cups bread flour.  I only use 6 1/2 but your conditions may very.

Two bread loaf pans well oiled. your choice. I use olive oil but any cooking oil will do.

In a bowel or stand up mixer. Add your warm water, sugar and yeast. Add one cup of the bread flour. Mix and lest stand for up to 10 minutes. Add milk and shortening. Stir or mix well. Add salt. Add remaining flour 1/2 cup at a time.
Knead for a good 8 to 10 minutes on a floured surface. Dough should stretch when pulled and be smooth to the touch.
Grease a large bowel. Place dough ball in bowel. Turning it to get the oil on the top of the ball as well.
Cover bowel with plastic wrap and let dough sit and rise for 1 hour.
After 1 hour deflate the dough. Knead a few times to get all the gasses out. Divide dough into two equal portions. Knead and press dough to fit bottom of bread pans.
Cover pans with plastic wrap and let rise for 1 hour.
Twenty minutes before the final rise is done pre heat your oven to 350.
Bake for 40 minutes
Cool out of pans on a bakers rack or heavy towel. You can tell the bread is done by tapping the bottom of the loaf. If it sounds hollow it's good. If not place back in pans and cook for another 5 minutes. Try again.
Let cool for a good 2 hours before slicing with a serrated knife.

[cause the rat]

My first ever attempt at making cinnamon swirl bread. The bread itself is great. The swirl is more like a question mark.    What I did was roll the dough out to about 3/4 of an inch. Slathered on the cinnamon mix and roll it back up. What I ended up with is lots of well risen bread will a bit of a swirl.  What I'll do today is make another batch of dough. Roll this batch out thin.  Slather on the cinnamon mix and have a bread with a real spiral. 

What happened to my first attempt was I forgot about the dough expanding. So when the 3/4 inch thick roll was done there was a good inch and a half of bread separating the cinnamon.  It still has a great flavor. More like an adult version of a cinnamon bun. Not overly sweet. Rolling the dough out thinner will allow for more cinnamon and sugar and a sweeter bread.

Some bread experiments I'm going to try.  I'm going to replace a cup or two of the bread flour with different grains to get different flavors. I've got barley flour. Will have to travel east to get wheat and rye. My idea is to use these flours when making free formed breads. Those big round, oblong and braided loaves. That way they wont just be cool looking white bread. 

UPDATE.
I've done some looking around on line. The good news is other people have tried this with great results. I've learned that I can replace up to 25% of the total bread flour with non gluten forming grains. And up to 50% when using whole wheat flour. AWESOME!

[cause the rat]

My new attempt of making cinnamon swirl bread is in the freezer. Wont know how they turned out till Thursday.

I've done a lot of searching for bread related stuff on line in the past week. More information about the hows, whys and what went wrongs than any sane person would ever need. I love the web.

Here's something different for breadheads. Now you can learn and eat history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dtBjqIu5W8

[cause the rat]

I look at cook books every now and then. Noticed there's a new five book set on bread. Then got sticker shock. Amazon has it for $532.88. But you do get free shipping.  Now this book has a bit over 1200 bread recipes.  So if you tried them all. Say three new loaves a week. That's almost 7 3/4 years. Overkill? Way over the top. Breaking the price down this fives book set offers each recipe at .44. Is that reasonable? My favorite book has 314 recipes. The latest print can be had by Amazon for $19.37. Cheaper by other sellers. If my favorite book's recipes cost .44 each? It would cost  138.16. Not only is that five book set excessive but way over priced.

The moral of the post is. If you do decide to get a few books there's things to stay away from.
One. Don't buy a picture book. Your paying for less recipes, less techniques and less needed knowledge.  if you really need to look at pretty pictures do a google search.
Two. Stay away from one trick ponies. An entire book of wheat bread. A book of 100 variations of pizza dough. And i could go on. I've seen them. These book offer little for the new baker.
Three. A book with a very small selection of bread. And a very big selection of cakes and pastries. If your looking to learn bread. Get a book that focuses only on breads.

What to look for.
A book that has recipes spanning different grains and styles. With well written instructions and illustrations on techniques. Because this book will give you the option of exploring new breads. Perhaps things you've never thought or heard of.

Remember it's not how many recipes you have. It's how many you make that counts. Out of the 314 in my favorite bread book I've only made 5. All five tasted differently. All made with the same flour. I even modded one of the recipes and like the mod better than the original. One good book could give you a lifetime of great breads.

[cause the rat]

And just one more thought about any cook book. That crazy old lady Martha Stewart isn't the only elitist cooker out there. I have a few books with really good info. And a lot of over the reality top BS. No. you really don't need to get fresh yeast from a beer brewery. Nor do you have to use only stone ground unbleached flour.  And any and all the other claims I've read or seen.  It's bread. Even if you mess up it's still bread when it's all said and done.  Even eatable. As long as you didn't screw it up that bad. 

There are forums on the net for just about everything. I've found one on bread making! Just bread making. And it's active! It's like the furry and water color forums I belong to. It's got a wide range of people. Everyone from total beginners to people who make a living doing it. For those who are going to be making or just, how could we put it, fresh bread curious?

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/forum

I haven't joined yet. But will. I have way to many questions.

I'm down to my final loaf. Going to be making a few tonight. Been looking at the idea of using beer. I don't drink. So I would have to buy this stuff one can at a time. Or buy a six pack and give the rest away. Beer does make a great cheese or onion soup. Everything I've read suggests a dark logger or ail. But avoid bitter beers. I don't know one from the other. Looking forward to a good internet search to learn of a good choice. That bread will have to wait. Tonight I'll be making the same modified Shaker loaf listed above. If I do make a second batch? Try one with the addition of Barley flour. Just to see what it tastes like.