Author Topic: Furries vrs the Media  (Read 3216 times)

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Offline Rimpala

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« on: September 20, 2005, 10:45:38 am »
The lifestyle I lived long before I knew it was even a lifestyle, or a sub-culture for that matter, but where I learned about it was on T.V. and from a few close friends. A word that has commonly been used was "fetish" which is kind of a startling stereotype, fetish almost exclusively being used with it's sexual definition, which in turn adds to the "look at the freaks" view of the world.
      While the "fetish" thing might be a small part of the lifestyle for some people I can kind of see it isn't the point, it's a mind set, a taste in art, and an indentity. Another thing assiciated with the lifestyle is the internet, but when you think about it furry fandom dates back to ancient times and could have been arround since the dawn of human civilization. (think totems, spinx, pookas, and Egyptian gods.) The internet serves just as a means of, reletively secretive, communication between other people of the lifestyle.
      While it really doesn't matter what they[/I] think, let all the "normal" people be their usual boring selves heh, what do you think? I hope it isn't too early for me to delve into this kind of territory...  ':?:'

Furries vrs the Media
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2005, 11:13:29 am »
Quote (Rimpala @ Sep. 20 2005, 10:45 am)
The lifestyle I lived long before I knew it was even a lifestyle, or a sub-culture for that matter, but where I learned about it was on T.V. and from a few close friends. A word that has commonly been used was "fetish" which is kind of a startling stereotype, fetish almost exclusively being used with it's sexual definition, which in turn adds to the "look at the freaks" view of the world.
      While the "fetish" thing might be a small part of the lifestyle for some people I can kind of see it isn't the point, it's a mind set, a taste in art, and an indentity. Another thing assiciated with the lifestyle is the internet, but when you think about it furry fandom dates back to ancient times and could have been arround since the dawn of human civilization. (think totems, spinx, pookas, and Egyptian gods.) The internet serves just as a means of, reletively secretive, communication between other people of the lifestyle.
      While it really doesn't matter what they[/I] think, let all the "normal" people be their usual boring selves heh, what do you think? I hope it isn't too early for me to delve into this kind of territory...  ':?:'

My suggestion would be to talk to user "Simo" about this.

Honestly, I got into furry because of my spiritual beliefes (still, a very controversial subject) but furry is much more than that.

I actually knew about the fandom via furry yahoo groups and yiff sites. I kept saying "it's not about the sex, it's not about the sex" almost like a mantra for a long time....

....Well >.>....I kinda got sucked into it. See how long you can hold out before you start looking at yiff ':p'

But no, it's not only about the sex, but no matter how much you call a shovel a spoon....ect...

Offline Rimpala

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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2005, 11:51:03 am »
Ah well, like I said, the people that are wierded out by it are boring and normal, and at that probably lead boring sex-lives too...

This post comes form the newbie furry that would have these kind of questions plaguing them. Relization of ones, er, furriness is kind of like that cliche "stepping out of the closet" but at the same time you try to convince yourself that "there ain't no freaking closet here!"





Offline Kayleigh

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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2005, 11:55:04 am »
Well said!

Us furs may be the victims of the media, but remember, that furdom is not as disgusting as things that go on in other cultures. Perhaps the media should just realize that furdom is NOT a minority.
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Furries vrs the Media
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2005, 11:55:06 am »
Quote (Rimpala @ Sep. 20 2005, 11:51 am)
Ah well, like I said, the people that are wierded out by it are boring and normal, and at that probably lead boring sex-lives too...

This post comes form the newbie furry that would have these kind of questions plaguing them. Relization of ones, er, furriness is kind of like that cliche "stepping out of the closet" but at the same time you try to convince yourself that "there ain't no freaking closet here!"

THERE IS NO CLOSET !!!!!!!!

We are just people who like to be floofy, and think foxes are teh secks, THATS IT!!!

I mean, it goes deeper than that (spirituality, community), but the more we act like there is a closet, the more people will think we are deviants.

I know you are not saying this, but you know what I mean.

Thes best thing I have done is with my friends is just say "Yeah, I like to dress up like a wolf". Everyone knows I was a weirdo before this, so not only are they accepting, but many of them want to get involved. Go figure.

PEACE
Koogs

Offline Rimpala

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2005, 12:07:46 pm »
Quote (Koogs @ Sep. 20 2005, 11:55 am)
Quote (Rimpala @ Sep. 20 2005, 11:51 am)
Ah well, like I said, the people that are wierded out by it are boring and normal, and at that probably lead boring sex-lives too...

This post comes form the newbie furry that would have these kind of questions plaguing them. Relization of ones, er, furriness is kind of like that cliche "stepping out of the closet" but at the same time you try to convince yourself that "there ain't no freaking closet here!"

THERE IS NO CLOSET !!!!!!!!

We are just people who like to be floofy, and think foxes are teh secks, THATS IT!!!

I mean, it goes deeper than that (spirituality, community), but the more we act like there is a closet, the more people will think we are deviants.

I know you are not saying this, but you know what I mean.

Thes best thing I have done is with my friends is just say "Yeah, I like to dress up like a wolf". Everyone knows I was a weirdo before this, so not only are they accepting, but many of them want to get involved. Go figure.

PEACE
Koogs

Ah nice, and sorry don't mean to offend, it's nice that there is no closet so that's the last time to mention the closest, except when I have to go to it to vacuum the floor.

Offline Simo

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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2005, 09:54:42 pm »
My suggestion would be to talk to user "Simo" about this.

Some one call my name?   '<img'>

The lifestyle I lived long before I knew it was even a lifestyle, or a sub-culture for that matter, but where I learned about it was on T.V. and from a few close friends.

That's usually how it works. The interest is almost always present before the "newbie" discovers that there is a fandom out there. I, myself, found out about it from a casual mention on a tech forum.

A word that has commonly been used was "fetish" which is kind of a startling stereotype, fetish almost exclusively being used with it's sexual definition, which in turn adds to the "look at the freaks" view of the world.

There are all sorts of screwey fetishes out there amoung the public-at-large, and none of them are unique to Furry. It's just that some incorporate their fetishes into their fandom. This is nothing unique to Furry either.

There are a couple of reasons that this has become so closely associated with Furry while the Trekkies, Anime fans, etc. get away with it. First of all, cartoons have been associated with "kids' stuff" ever since about 1960. Now, after some 45 years of conditioning, the public-at-large is going to have a hard time accepting as "normal" your drawing your animal people as sexual beings in sexual situations. This whole business of drawing sexy animal people got started in 1968 with Robert Crumb's Fritz the Cat. These underground "Comix" grew out of the hippy counterculture. The main motivation for this was two-fold: squick the squares, and provide a form of simple, easy to read, entertainment when the tetrahydrocannibinol or diethyllysergamide molecules were doing their fandango on the synapses. These "Comix" were sold to the Stoner Set via the up and coming "Head Shop" industry.

The PaL, to this day, has a hard time accepting sexy animal people. They aren't going to understand, and will naturally associate this with bestiality. Indeed, that epithet: "skunk-f***ers" is almost as old as the term: "furry". That epithet was created by someone whose name is lost to history, but what he did was deface the flyers announcing a Furry party at one of the Baycon conventions. The point of contention was that they felt that Furries were over-running "their" convention. This was before the first actual Fur-con, and years before Furry ever registered even so much as a blip on the mass media's radar.

Secondly, there is so much "pr0n" in Furry art since there isn't any in the "respectable" mass media. Now, this is going to cause a lot of folks out there a lot of what the heck. Blame Disney, blame Hanna-Barbera: too late to do anything about it now.

Still, we did it to ourselves. In 1998, when the Burned Furs came along, crowing about "perversion", and making grandiose proclamations about how they were going to kick out all the furverts, all too many Furries just would not STFU about this. As a result, seach engines keying on words like "bestiality", "zoophile", "fetish", "pervert", etc. began to return lots of Furry web sites and newsgroups. That's how the producer of the MTV "schlock-umentary" found out about it. Lesson: keep internal fandom business out of the public eye, and keep it in the family.

Of course, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. The PaL has a very short memory, and the Fur-cons still go on, as the hotels like our $$$$, and they appreciate that Furries are about the best behaved conventioneers out there.

Perhaps the media should just realize that furdom is NOT a minority.

That's process has already bugun. THAT CSI episode was not nearly as bad as the original script, and they were willing to work with us to fix it. Other groups they've featured have been portrayed in a worse light. Also, there have been adverts with undeniable Fur-appeal. The fandom's next big crisis may very well be corporate co-option.

...that furdom is not as disgusting as things that go on in other cultures.

As for Fur-bashers, what can I say? I'm the newest feature on a Fur-bash web site I'll refer to as "Doorway to Extreme-badness". OK, I got called a "furfag". (for all they know, I might be female, in which case, this would make no sense at all.  '<img'>  ) Whenever I come across crap like this, I just imagine them waiting with baited keyboard for the reply that never comes.  '<img'>  

Guess what they've said in the past:

2004: furfag
2003: furfag
2002: furfag
2001: furfag
2000: furfag

They sure are an imaginative bunch aren't they?   '<img'>  Same goes for that other notorious Fur-bash site: "Indefinite Unacceptable".

Don't give Fur-bashers the time of day; they ain't worth it. Leave those pathetic losers to their sad, drab little wastes of lives. Go out and draw some anthros, hit a Fur-meet, have a blast at a Fur-con. Like they say, living well is the best revenge.   '<img'>
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Offline KristynLioness

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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2005, 01:59:33 pm »
Very excellent points made, Simo. I found what you had to say to be very educational.

You are definately right about the fur bashers. My friend owns a furry forum, and twice a gang of people from somethingawful.com came just to troll and flame and spam and they just showed how unintelligent they are. They kept calling us cursewords and were talking like drunkards, and like they had the IQ of a potato. I've seen firsthand what little imagination they have cuz both those times it was all the same flaming insults =p I learned that the best weapon is to ignore them as you said.

And I think the media focuses too much on the extreme part of the culture. This irritates me because then people think that all furries want to yiff their plushies and pets and each other in fursuits and whatnot =P Really what business is that of anyone's anyway?

Must say kudos to the TLC special from 2003. They portrayed us in a very positive light and I don't remember yiff even being mentioned.
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Offline Burr

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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2005, 02:56:14 pm »
It's not so much Furries vs. the Media as much as it is the Media whoring themselves out for ratings, credibility be damned. Don't take it personal. They do this to everything, including your favorite sports team (if you have one).
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Offline Simo

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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2005, 05:49:40 pm »
And I think the media focuses too much on the extreme part of the culture. This irritates me because then people think that all furries want to yiff their plushies and pets and each other in fursuits and whatnot =P Really what business is that of anyone's anyway?

Of course they do. Thanks to Ronnie Ray-gun, the "news" is no longer considered to be a public service and a public obligation for their being allowed to use our RF spectrum for their private profit. It used to be that the news divisions weren't expected to turn a profit.

These days, the news division is now the most profitable division. It isn't about journalism anymore; it's just anotherform of entertainment. Since there is no "Furry, Inc" with a well-staffed legal department, they know they can get away with it. It's all about generating public what the heck for rating share.

Whenever I want to know what's going on in the wider world outside Furry, I bypass any American media and go straight to the foreign press. I have no more confidence in, or trust of, such things as Faux "News", or even CNN for that matter, than I do of The Weekly World News or The Nat'l Enquirer. In fact, I believe that the old Pravda of the Soviet days was less slanted, and more truthful, than "Faux", and old Pravda's journalistic standards were higher.

And that's why I first heard of Furry from a casual mention on a tech forum. I pay no attention to the American media whatsoever.
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Offline Rimpala

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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2005, 03:35:06 pm »
Thank you Simo the animated gif. dolphin, world record holder for the longest backstroke '<img'>

  It feels so great knowing where I belong, I think I finally reached a level of acceptance.

  And as for the public at large who cares. The post about the fur bashers expressed it best. We seem to be the smart creative bunch while the bashers are not only dummer then my computer (and THAT's dumb!'<img'> but show a sad lack of morals IMHO... bashing a subculture for profit, what else do you call that?

  Truly, the ways of "normal" society are horrible at times, we've all seen it, I've seen it. Sometimes I wonder if we are the sane while the public at large is the insane. Think about it.

Offline The Metal Fox

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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2005, 07:34:43 pm »
It's kinda of the saying "if it bleeds, it leads" The media uses outrage and shock to boost ratings. It doesn't matter what the subject, they will take the part that will cause most emotional reaction and run with it.  Like what Burr said, it's not personal, its just business.
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Offline Opalance

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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2005, 03:33:58 pm »
Hmm.....I dont watch TV, so I cant really say much about how they portray us because I've never seen anything on it. I'm not really sure how people really think about it, no one I've ever told has been all "woah, you need mental help" or anything, but at the same time I'm afraid of what would happen if the word really did get out like at college, or work, or even church for that matter.

Offline Rimpala

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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2005, 09:00:34 pm »
Quote (Opalance @ Sep. 25 2005, 3:33 pm)
Hmm.....I dont watch TV, so I cant really say much about how they portray us because I've never seen anything on it. I'm not really sure how people really think about it, no one I've ever told has been all "woah, you need mental help" or anything, but at the same time I'm afraid of what would happen if the word really did get out like at college, or work, or even church for that matter.

I'm currently telling my closest friends, next year I'll be in a 4-year university, and on my own so I'll casualy mention it to my parents, my mom first she has a gay cousin so she'll understand.

  I've already let my online friends know, I'm the leader of their pet-based guild, we are in competition with another creature/pet guild so maybe having the quirky furry leader will give us an edge, creature guild leader is a FURRY - now that's keeping it real '<img'>

   As far as church goes, comeing from personal beliefs Jesus Christ loves everyone, something more Christians should practice on... And God created you furry. Seriously challenge the faithfull, "Are you going to judge me just because of a little quirk? I don't need to be forgiven for being who I am, at least I don't lie to myself about it. So go on, WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?"  ':shock:'

   I mean for serious, true friends, true family, and those that acutally have meat to their faith, accept their loved ones no matter what.

Offline Taren

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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2005, 10:47:41 pm »
I wonder why the animé fandom isn't portrayed like the furry fandom.

Offline Burr

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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2005, 11:42:35 pm »
It used to be. Still is by some folks. It's really no surprise that now anime fans decide to pile on the same kind of bullying towards us they received endlessly for years before being recognized by the mainstream.
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Offline Simo

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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2005, 12:23:18 am »
Quote
As far as church goes, comeing from personal beliefs Jesus Christ loves everyone, something more Christians should practice on... And God created you furry. Seriously challenge the faithfull, "Are you going to judge me just because of a little quirk? I don't need to be forgiven for being who I am, at least I don't lie to myself about it. So go on, WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?"


Jesus was a Furry.

Quote

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

--John 1:29


So we know what his fursona was.

Quote

 13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

 14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

--Rev


And it looks like he was into costuming.

It just doesn't get any Furry-er than that!   '<img'>

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Offline Rimpala

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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2005, 02:35:32 am »
Quote

 13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

 14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

--Rev


All fursuiters together now...

Show off...

just kidding





Offline Mikael GRizzly

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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2005, 01:54:50 pm »
Media will ALWAYS concentrate on the most extreme examples, it fuels their popularity. Especially tabloids, which unfortunately influence the opinions of much of the society (dang, I hate this words).

Just a thought - why we get bashed? 'd blame it on how open we are. Not that's a bad or in any ways negative, but: PaL is equipped with traits indigenous to humans - prejudice and hatred. As such, they approach everyone with distrust and negative attitude. (I know I'm generalizing, but...) Furries on the other hand throw away such negatives and accept others, without stereotyping or going instantly negative on them.

As animals. An animal attacks other animal if it's hungry/threatened/territorial. Humans attack other humans often for no particular reason.

This is in my opinion, the main difference between us and PaL. No prejudice, no instant judgements. And this is what attracts much negative attention - "If they are so accepting, there is something wrong with them, I'm sure! Like a sect or something!"

Also, we are EXTREMELY creative, without any definite rules, strict universes or somesuch. Pretty much everyfur creates his own fursona, background story, universe, which stands in opposition to (no offence) Star Trek or Star Wars, with estabilished history, plotlines, races, technology etc.
As (I love this word) such, it's difficult for large companies to address our needs, since everyone has his own, individual, different from others'. And in our times of rabid consumerism, we stand out, adding to our 'strangeness-factor'. I mean, how can someone not love the large-companies-made-hiphop/punk/etc-music/clothes/appliances designed to make you feel 'unique', as 'unique' as hundreds of thousands of others?

Oh, and I vote Simo for the position of Furry Public Relations department head.

Offline Rimpala

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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2005, 03:13:16 am »
Quote (Mikael GRizzly @ Sep. 27 2005, 1:54 pm)
Media will ALWAYS concentrate on the most extreme examples, it fuels their popularity. Especially tabloids, which unfortunately influence the opinions of much of the society (dang, I hate this words).

Just a thought - why we get bashed? 'd blame it on how open we are. Not that's a bad or in any ways negative, but: PaL is equipped with traits indigenous to humans - prejudice and hatred. As such, they approach everyone with distrust and negative attitude. (I know I'm generalizing, but...) Furries on the other hand throw away such negatives and accept others, without stereotyping or going instantly negative on them.

As animals. An animal attacks other animal if it's hungry/threatened/territorial. Humans attack other humans often for no particular reason.

This is in my opinion, the main difference between us and PaL. No prejudice, no instant judgements. And this is what attracts much negative attention - "If they are so accepting, there is something wrong with them, I'm sure! Like a sect or something!"

Also, we are EXTREMELY creative, without any definite rules, strict universes or somesuch. Pretty much everyfur creates his own fursona, background story, universe, which stands in opposition to (no offence) Star Trek or Star Wars, with estabilished history, plotlines, races, technology etc.
As (I love this word) such, it's difficult for large companies to address our needs, since everyone has his own, individual, different from others'. And in our times of rabid consumerism, we stand out, adding to our 'strangeness-factor'. I mean, how can someone not love the large-companies-made-hiphop/punk/etc-music/clothes/appliances designed to make you feel 'unique', as 'unique' as hundreds of thousands of others?

Oh, and I vote Simo for the position of Furry Public Relations department head.

The no prejudice aspect is one of the reasons why I hope this is really what I am, it's like haven of no-judgementness in a judgemental world

Offline weredog

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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2005, 05:17:01 pm »
Fur bashers amuse me. They whine about furries being pervert sex fiends, they take pains to dig up the most horrific, extreme examples of dirty Furry art and hold it up as the norm, conveniently overlooking all the decent art the fandom has produced because hey if they can't portray Furs as sickos then they'll have nothing else to compare their sad little lives to in order to elevate themselves above others.
And don't you dare try to confuse them with facts. They're so obsessed with their attempts to drag others down they refuse to listen to reason. Trying to have a reasonable conversation with them is a lost cause.

Offline Firehazard

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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 07:16:18 pm »
Quote (weredog @ Sep. 28 2005, 5:17 pm)
Fur bashers amuse me. They whine about furries being pervert sex fiends, they take pains to dig up the most horrific, extreme examples of dirty Furry art and hold it up as the norm, conveniently overlooking all the decent art the fandom has produced because hey if they can't portray Furs as sickos then they'll have nothing else to compare their sad little lives to in order to elevate themselves above others.

It doesn't take as much digging as you might think.  Trust me.

Quote (Simo @ Sep. 26 2005, 12:23 am)
J. C.'s Furcode: FArSh1a A !C D++ H+++ !M !P R T++++ W++++$ !Z Sm- RLCI a+ !c !d e** f+ h+ !i !j p- sm---

Okay, I'm nominating you for leader of the Too Much Free Time Club.  (Although you left out the alternate fursona: a lion. '<img'>)
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Offline weredog

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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2005, 07:39:50 pm »
Oh I know there's some really bad stuff out there, and I know it isn't all that difficult to find. But I've found it's easily enough avoided. To hear the bashers talk you can't go within a hundred yards of anything furry without having your senses assaulted with something horrific and that's just not so. And besides as I've said many times before, it's not just Furry. You can find horrors in ANY fandom if you look hard enough.

Offline Nikko

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Furries vrs the Media
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2005, 08:23:02 pm »
Sex sells in all circles... we are becomeing more known... so... lets sex it up because there is difinately sex in the fandom for those who want it... and once we have done that kids we have created the media stew that sells to all the other people because in an age where less and less stuff shocks us this still ruffles our fur and gets there attention regardless of the validity of it.

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Offline Rimpala

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Furries vrs the Media
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2005, 10:54:54 pm »
Quote (Nikko @ Sep. 28 2005, 8:23 pm)
Sex sells in all circles... we are becomeing more known... so... lets sex it up because there is difinately sex in the fandom for those who want it... and once we have done that kids we have created the media stew that sells to all the other people because in an age where less and less stuff shocks us this still ruffles our fur and gets there attention regardless of the validity of it.

 ----=Nikko=----

Only problem with that is church

   no offense to true believers, but you know how some preachy people get when there's a sub-culture out that is a little more liberated then they'd like them to be... that culture becomes the main cause for all the ills in the world.

   I used to attend religious private schools, some better then others, one highschool expelled a freind of mine just because he was Muslim.  '<img'>  And no prejudices right? He was a nice guy not the terrorists you see on tv.