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Offline Nikko

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wisdom with time
« on: July 19, 2005, 01:50:01 am »
I have been a part of this fandom for a good amount of time. I love it. Even though there are some creapy people in it I have to say there are also some very wonderful loveing people. Ultimately I think it's an extention of alot of our innner most dreams and even spitual for others. With this the lifestyle is created and so here we are.... Together we are on the web talking about what joy this all gives us and yet... we are freaks to our people who we also belong to. Why dose this all have to be so lopsided. It's almost not natural. It almost seems like we have become an almost hybread between humans and animals. We accept our fates much like that of beasts yet we think about it just like humans. We are nither social nor are we reclusive. It's just that we are so different no one really wants us it seems. Why is this....? I have a theory on this but I would rather hear yours. It's not fair however.... This is live and if a tiger could talk I am sure he would say much the same for the gazell he just killed.

 ----=Nikko=----


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Offline Koneko

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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2005, 05:02:44 pm »
Wow that was really nice...sort of poetic. But confusing.

':goldarou:'

Is this refering to something I don't know about?

I'm not too clear on what the question is, but here's what I think:
I think that all people are different and some are more different then most. Furries are different and yet similar, so we band together. You know, birds of a feather and all... its just human nature. "Normal" people find it weird, but its just different from what they're used to and they find it hard to understand. Personally I always felt weird, I'm a bit of a misfit. And so are a lot of people here but I love 'em for it. Few people really believe that they are animals, but they feel disconnected from humanity and so they group together in this huge forest we call the internet, and purr, bark and growl together. Its just a way of reaching out to other misfits.

Well that's what I think, although I also think I missed the point entirely. Oh well.

Offline Nitch

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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2005, 11:44:35 pm »
I haven't been in the fandom as long as you I'm sure, but I understand exactly what you mean. We are freaks to other people because of social misconceptions / fear of the unknown. One way of dealing with it is to be confident in our furry nature and not be afraid to answer if people ask about it. If people see the positive aspects of it and that it is a loving, welcoming culture, then it will be better accepted.

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Offline Nikko

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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2005, 01:03:42 am »
Quote (Nitch @ July 19 2005, 11:44 pm)
I haven't been in the fandom as long as you I'm sure, but I understand exactly what you mean. We are freaks to other people because of social misconceptions / fear of the unknown. One way of dealing with it is to be confident in our furry nature and not be afraid to answer if people ask about it. If people see the positive aspects of it and that it is a loving, welcoming culture, then it will be better accepted.

'<img'>  I agree with that.... However all of those obsticals remain... Ultimately even if they did all accept us... We also don't nessicerly fit in with them anymore becaues we have accepted a nature so different to them... It's kinda hard to explain...

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Offline Far_Raptor

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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2005, 02:11:20 am »
Strange...I was actually thinking on this philosophy the other night.  

As usual, you put my feelings to words pretty darn well. '<img'>  As for the social acceptance: I honestly doubt Furry will ever truly gain social 'acceptance.'  

My sentiment as to why this is?  Well, you put it best with the following quote:

 
Quote
creepy people


It's pretty much that simple.  Pop culture (not to mention internet culture) gloms onto these creepy induviduals, and whether we like it or not, they are now the trademark of what it is to be furry.

The reason your post stirred my thoughts on this issue is due to a discussion inspired by several furries on another board I frequent (a board which will remain nameless: lets just say its very anti-furry).  Anyway, as usual, this site featured a website illustrating a rather bizzare induvudal, heavily involved in the strange sexual fetishes that our fandom is associated with.

The usual taunting and teasing of the site and its owner then ensued (as is normal with such featured sites).  Of course, everyone there automatically makes the association that the site of this one strange induvidual is representitive of all off furry.  Several of the resident furs there tried to argue how that was not the case.

Sadly, very few of the people on that site really know anything about furry, and even less (if any) really care enough to find out.  Most don't look beyond the first picture or two they see on that featured site.  Almost all don't do their research, nor do they actually try to find the normal people in the fandom.  Instead, they dump every fur they meet into the same freakish pot as that one strange induvidual--no matter how strong the arguments placed or evidences shown to reveal the contrary.

The new forum members on said site see this, and also don't do their research.  Instead, they adopt the opinions of the rest, and go right along with it without ever seeing what else is there.  They simply don't care enough to look, so everyone looks at us unfavorably--whether we like it or not.  

Such is the way of information; and despite my best efforts to figure out a way to deal with it while still getting our point across, I simply can't.  No argument is ever good enough.  No words are ever clear enough.  No picture can ever show enough.  My best response is simply thus: I don't care what they think.  And as Party Pony put it: "there's no need to go trumpeting about the fact that your a furry."  

Much like you, my fondness for the fandom has grown considerably in past months.  I'm still new at this, but I've been watching furry for a very long time, and I always thought it was pretty darn cool (even when, once upon a time ago, I participated on said board).  Something tells me I'll be here for the long-haul, and despite whatever ridicule and unimportant hootenany everyone else on the internet (or world) thinks, I plan on enjoying the fun regardless.

~FaR~


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Offline Midnight Fury

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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2005, 10:13:42 am »
It's been my experience that people will shun a certain person or group of people merely because someone they view as a leader or some sort of authority figure disagrees with said person or people. Fearing that they would be ousted from the "normal" crowd, they will accept the opinion, so empty and thoughtless of an opinion that it may be, just because they don't want to be shunned themselves, even though they may not actually believe it themselves. No one wants to be rejected, and sometimes people will lie about their own beliefs in order to be accepted by the people they follow. That's sort of human nature, though, I think.
I bid thee farewell, oh furry fandom! May we meet again.

Offline Drake Blackpaw

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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2005, 11:03:38 am »
Groups and/or people are shunned for many reasons.  Midnight Fury mentioned one main reason, people shun a particular group because someone they follow or the crowd they are in shun that group and they do not want to lose favor.  Think of some of the regular anti-furry sites out there, doesn't it just read like people saying me too so they are part of the crowd?

I also think people shun things they feel are not normal because it makes them feel better.  No matter how low you feel about yourself, if there is a group that you shun then there is someone who is lower than you.  For certain people, it is a way to build up there self-esteem by pulling others down.

Some people are threatenned by stuff they see is not normal.  Things are suppose to be a certain way and people are suppose to act within certain guidelines.  People who have this type of personality usually are not quick to embrace those who do things outside of the norm.

Even taking the sexual stuff away, furry is related to several things that many people find outside of the norm.  First, most people view anthropomorphic characters as being for children only and having an interest in them once you are in your teens and adulthood is abnormal or even infantile.  Were weird for being fascinated and identifying ourselves with something that is meant for five year olds.  Second, a lot of people find role playing strange.  In a different thread, a couple of us mentioned how we were told we were going to hell because we played D&D.  The idea that you want to pretend to be someone else, even in play is looked at as strange by many.  Lastly, furry is also associated with sci-fi and fantasy and many people have looked down at fans of those genres as being strange and based in reality.

I think we need to accept ourselves and worry less about what those around us think.  There will always be those who put us and other groups down because they feel it helps them be part of a chosen group, it makes them feel better, or they just see us as being outside the norm and don't like things that are outside what they expect.  These people are likely to not look very far to understand what furry is as their reasons for shunning furs has less to do with furry itself, but the need to have something to shun to fulfill a desire they have.

Offline Far_Raptor

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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2005, 03:43:22 am »
Yep...you guys pretty much covered it exactly.  Now that I look back on how I was in those early days (back when I was a "closet fur" on the nasty forums), I see how stupid and senseless I acted.  I was missing out on a lot; but all that changed when I started actually looking into things, looking beyond the grimy stereotypes that make up the surface of what they show as the 'fandom'.

Ah well, live and learn.  That's what da' raptor says.

'<img'>
~FaR~


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Offline Jpsousa

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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2005, 04:22:59 am »
There is no really boundary between us and those who call us 'freaks'

The boundary is an imaginary line thought up by the extremists on either side. And for one reason:a lot of people see the poor side of the fandom, before they see the other, great side.

The people are YTMND think we are all Zoophiles who just wanna get raped by some random animal of our choosing. after speaking with just a few, i found that they had an incredible lack of knowledge about the fandom...

Really, a boundary between any two groups is either because:
1. The groups disagree on several points. (like liberals and conservatives)
2. The groups know nothing about each other.

To simplify it: its because of both of the above.
1. 'Who the heck would wanna become an animal?!...who would want to dress up in a fursuit yatta yatta yatta ...Is it FUN or something?! i doubt it'
a furry might say 'Of COURSE its fun!'
2. as i explained about YTMND...they hate us because they think the fandom is just a bunch of people with the same fetish: Sexual intercourse with those who are other then human.
This thread has ended...
Please cut here ----------------------

Offline zwabbe

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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2005, 09:15:38 am »
As ive said before its an escape.. Thats all I can say about it really, that one word..But to touch the heart a bit more..

When i first found the fandom life was ####.. And I found somewhere i can be someone else.. or something else.. Ultimetly I lost contact with the human world while i was someone online with the fandom...

These days I come for a diffrent reason. I come because of the people of the fandom.. I have met some of the greatest people online in the furry world, People you can open up to so much and you know feel just like you. These days ive got a good life and i dont need to hide behind my fursona which dont generally do. I still roleplay him sometimes and its still a sorta profile for online. But its the people that keep me the most.. I love you all so much  ':blush:'

Personally I think everyone has there own reasons for being here. Some might be like me they are hiding from the reality of things, Or they Simply do beleive they have there animal totem connection. They could just have a interest in Anthro or Animals. They could as well enjoy the company. Some might have stumbled accross the fandom and thought this is interesting lets hang around for awhile. Theres probably millions more reasons....

Offline siiwolf

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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2005, 05:58:32 pm »
If you think furries are freaks, you need to look at "normal" people...it'll give you nightmares :P I really haven't seen any people bashing the fandom except for a few sites on the internet, and it's the internet so who cares? I know I've ditched the fandom twice--too paranoid what others thought about it--but kept coming back. Why? I'm not too sure, really, for me it's probably a spiritual thing, but I enjoy some of the interesting people I have met in the process of being around. I also realized that people spend so much time trying to be like everyone else they don't really like, it's all a rather pointless endeavor. People only accept you for being yourself, not being someone fake, at least the people we should all strive to be around IMO.

Depending on why someone attaches themselves to the fandom, it can be easy to get lost and misguided within it, Nikko knows what I mean by that '<img'> The furry mentality can be pretty bizarre and downright original, but then, so are a lot of things. Besides, aside from an interview and needing a job, as long as you aren't an ###, one shouldn't care what others think of them. Actions speak much louder than words.





Offline Simo

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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2005, 07:04:33 pm »
Nikko, congratulations, you are now an official weirdo.

What you describe is no different from what the Trekkies, Anime fans, Lovecrafters, X-Philes, the LOTR fandom, etc. have gone through. You show an interest in the uncommon, and that's what happens. Despite the American ideal of "rugged individualism", there is a great deal of pressure to conform to the "norm" (whatever that is.   ':p'  ).

we are freaks to our people who we also belong to.

I don't have this problem. They already know what I'm like, and have been giving me dolphin-themed knick-knacks for a very long time. Formal affiliation with a fandom of like-minded folks came as no surprise, or even that big of a deal.

Nikko: It's just that we are so different no one really wants us it seems.

Far_Raptor: As for the social acceptance: I honestly doubt Furry will ever truly gain social 'acceptance.'

And thank Dog for that! "Social acceptance" will come with a high price: corporate assimilation. This will utterly destroy the very things that make Furry a worth-while fandom. Take a good LQQK at the history of Rock 'n' Roll. When guys like Elvis, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Bill Haley started out, this new thingy scared |-|311 out of the "normal" folks. Presley's performances scandalized the parents of America, but could that dude rock!

Within five years, the whole genre had been taken over by the major labels. Rock 'n' Roll became "respectable"; they made it "non-threatening" to mom and dad -- and as boring and insipid as white bread. It was an endless succession of one horrible "boy-girl" song after another. "The King", completely co-opted by the labels and Hollywood, became the star of some of the worst movies in the entire history of cinema. But he was now completely "safe".

The "British Invasion" happened in the nick of time to save the entire genre. As bands go, the Beatles were way over-rated, but at the very least paved the way for a revitalization by opening up the European scene, and inspiring American acts to similar feats of creativity.

I, for one, don't want to see Furry fall into the hands of the suits, marketing weenies, and ad-men.   ':p'  There is a very real chance that this could happen, once they figure out that we Furries have enough disposable income for cons and art auctions, and that some Furry art goes for well into four and five figures.

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Offline Far_Raptor

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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2005, 12:00:21 am »
Quote
Drake Blackpaw: Clicky


My favorite part of Simo's spiel was the Rush Limbaugh quote (listed below for lazy furs):

Quote
   Guess what, folks? This weekend, 1700 people, all of them animal lovers, are expected to gather at the Furry convention San Jose, California.

    The Furries, for those who don't know -- and I sincerely hope that that's most of you -- are people who love animals so much that they take on their identities and sometimes dress up like their animals. You heard right. These humans take on the identities of the animals they love, and sometimes dress up like them. It allows adults, grown-up human beings, this is a quote: 'a place to act out their inter-species fantasies.'

    Lee Strom is one of the Furry Convention's founding fathers. He says just because it's weird, it's still perfectly normal to the people involved in it. He's 36. He wants to be a raccoon! (Laughing) The convention will have workshops for the Furries: puppetry, costume-making, writing about mythical creatures and here's one I think oughta be videotaped -- a workshop on Furry anatomy. (Whispering) Can you find it? Can you find it?

    Apparently some Furries, uh, aren't waiting until the convention starts this weekend to act out their "inter-species fantasies." A reporter caught up with Katie Matthew, 20, prancing through the lobby of a hotel dressed as a fox. She was prancing with other adults dressed as goats, tigers and other creatures. Katie likes the fun of dressing up and escaping into her made-up animal character, which she calls "Shadow".

    Okay, folks. I have only one question. With a war going on and the tragedy of the tsunami, isn't this Furry convention too festive and too costly? That's a real fur-ball for you liberals, eh? Ha! Ha! Shut 'em down! Shut 'em down! It's perverted!


I love his lagitimization for why we shouldn't be furries.  It's too 'festive and too costly'.  I suppose, then, instead of having fun (which, by his logic, would seem to include any 'festive' occasion like movies, house-parties, marriages...anything) we should be glued to our television sets, watching CNN or (even better) FOX news, absorbing every ounce of the latest and greatest in breaking events.  

No fun allowed while tragedy is going on somewhere in the world (which is pretty much always)....even if the occasion is only once a year--as it is for most of us.

*Raptor gets off soapbox*  Sorry.  Words cannot describe how much I truly hate that man.

~FaR~


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Offline Burr

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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2005, 11:32:33 am »
Eh I think that "too festive and costly" comment was a jab at Democrats who were complaining about the Presidential inauguration being "too festive and costly." Remember, Rush is a rabid partisan first and foremost, so even a story about furries has to turn into a political flamefest. Also having heard an MP3 recording of it, he didn't even sound all that serious when he said "Shut 'em down!" Plus he was reading pretty much straight out of USA Today for the most part.

I think the guy is too idiotic to even bother hating.




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Offline Nikko

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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2005, 03:24:44 am »
'<img'>  This is proveing to be a very good topic... I like seeing alot of the imput... It's involveing... and yes... Though I might be a weirdo I am rather happy to accept this fact...

 You should have seen the look on my commands face when I told them I puchased a 700$ fursuit. That was priceless... They couldn't understad it don't matter how hard I try to explain it... Though if I tell you then you'll understand right away... I guess that's part of the real difference.

 ----=Nikko=----
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wisdom with time
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2005, 12:32:59 pm »
Whell, I dont know about you guys, but I'm very happy being different, I even like being called strange because it makes me feel separate from the rest of the gorillas that attack anything thats slightly different from their already crappy way of life.

Offline FuzzlePup

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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2005, 01:49:31 pm »
Wisdom? Tah ha very good young one. I find that when one expressess ones emotion in a manner that is to be deprived of a unnoumatical substansiated agreement with ones own self, it is a thing of distilliated and justified peace between his or her self. *blows bubble pipe*


Okay that made no sense...I just wanted to sound smart and whimsical.  ':cry:'
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wisdom with time
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2005, 07:34:29 pm »
Quote (FuzzlePup @ Aug. 17 2005, 1:49 pm)
Wisdom? Tah ha very good young one. I find that when one expressess ones emotion in a manner that is to be deprived of a unnoumatical substansiated agreement with ones own self, it is a thing of distilliated and justified peace between his or her self. *blows bubble pipe*


Okay that made no sense...I just wanted to sound smart and whimsical.  ':cry:'

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Offline Nikko

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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2005, 09:24:05 pm »
Quote (FuzzlePup @ Aug. 17 2005, 1:49 pm)
Wisdom? Tah ha very good young one. I find that when one expressess ones emotion in a manner that is to be deprived of a unnoumatical substansiated agreement with ones own self, it is a thing of distilliated and justified peace between his or her self. *blows bubble pipe*


Okay that made no sense...I just wanted to sound smart and whimsical.  ':cry:'

I like it... really I do...

 *Has to double look at the cute kitty that prince karo had not too long ago!*

 ----=Nikko=----
FFS2acrsw A- C++ D+++ H+ M P++ R- T++++ W*** Z++ Sm RLMA a cdlmnuw++ d+++ e+ f++ h+++ iwf+ j++ p- sf+

P [ted,cat,bun] / >F [cat] B++ !BB C++ E FF++ I+ M- >MM N+ O+ #S Tasz ma
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wisdom with time
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2005, 12:05:17 am »
Quote (Far_Raptor @ Aug. 16 2005, 12:00 am)
Quote
Drake Blackpaw: Clicky


My favorite part of Simo's spiel was the Rush Limbaugh quote (listed below for lazy furs):

Quote
   Guess what, folks? This weekend, 1700 people, all of them animal lovers, are expected to gather at the Furry convention San Jose, California.

    The Furries, for those who don't know -- and I sincerely hope that that's most of you -- are people who love animals so much that they take on their identities and sometimes dress up like their animals. You heard right. These humans take on the identities of the animals they love, and sometimes dress up like them. It allows adults, grown-up human beings, this is a quote: 'a place to act out their inter-species fantasies.'

    Lee Strom is one of the Furry Convention's founding fathers. He says just because it's weird, it's still perfectly normal to the people involved in it. He's 36. He wants to be a raccoon! (Laughing) The convention will have workshops for the Furries: puppetry, costume-making, writing about mythical creatures and here's one I think oughta be videotaped -- a workshop on Furry anatomy. (Whispering) Can you find it? Can you find it?

    Apparently some Furries, uh, aren't waiting until the convention starts this weekend to act out their "inter-species fantasies." A reporter caught up with Katie Matthew, 20, prancing through the lobby of a hotel dressed as a fox. She was prancing with other adults dressed as goats, tigers and other creatures. Katie likes the fun of dressing up and escaping into her made-up animal character, which she calls "Shadow".

    Okay, folks. I have only one question. With a war going on and the tragedy of the tsunami, isn't this Furry convention too festive and too costly? That's a real fur-ball for you liberals, eh? Ha! Ha! Shut 'em down! Shut 'em down! It's perverted!


I love his lagitimization for why we shouldn't be furries.  It's too 'festive and too costly'.  I suppose, then, instead of having fun (which, by his logic, would seem to include any 'festive' occasion like movies, house-parties, marriages...anything) we should be glued to our television sets, watching CNN or (even better) FOX news, absorbing every ounce of the latest and greatest in breaking events.  

No fun allowed while tragedy is going on somewhere in the world (which is pretty much always)....even if the occasion is only once a year--as it is for most of us.

*Raptor gets off soapbox*  Sorry.  Words cannot describe how much I truly hate that man.

~FaR~

you know that it was a joke right?

Offline FuzzlePup

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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2005, 02:40:28 am »
Quote (Nikko @ Aug. 17 2005, 9:24 pm)
Quote (FuzzlePup @ Aug. 17 2005, 1:49 pm)
Wisdom? Tah ha very good young one. I find that when one expressess ones emotion in a manner that is to be deprived of a unnoumatical substansiated agreement with ones own self, it is a thing of distilliated and justified peace between his or her self. *blows bubble pipe*


Okay that made no sense...I just wanted to sound smart and whimsical.  ':cry:'

I like it... really I do...

 *Has to double look at the cute kitty that prince karo had not too long ago!*

 ----=Nikko=----

Prince caro had the same avy as me before? Or did I read it wrong?


Perhaps I read it wrong, and perhaps I read it right. In a world where right and wrong are formalities that are derived from the depths of the complicated emotions and brain activity that came from over exerssion of timeless ages that sought to discover the truth of life and the reason why we choose to belive what we belive in a manner that we become aggressive towards whoever doubts ones own throught processes precieved as oppinions. Oppinions that were created by facts, but by what term would you determine fact as reality? and waht reality is truth and what does truth really mean?

....see I dont even know what i wrote up there....
"I've officially left Furtopia, I deserve a lot better."

Offline Far_Raptor

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wisdom with time
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2005, 03:52:43 am »
Quote
you know that it was a joke right?


I do now.  I didn't at the time, being that I don't listen to Rush and the fact that it's been a while since the innoguration.  

The reason behind the rather visceral reaction I had to Rush is simple: I don't condone or tolerate people who breed hatred and stupidity.  Rush is the epitome of exactly that.

Thankfully everyone here is too smart for his gimmicks.  But I know a few people who absolutely love that windbag.  That makes me sad.  '<img'>

~FaR~


Thanks to Baconstrip for the awesome sig!

Offline TigerWiccan

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wisdom with time
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2005, 11:02:04 am »
Quote (Midnight Fury @ July 20 2005, 10:13 am)
It's been my experience that people will shun a certain person or group of people merely because someone they view as a leader or some sort of authority figure disagrees with said person or people. Fearing that they would be ousted from the "normal" crowd, they will accept the opinion, so empty and thoughtless of an opinion that it may be, just because they don't want to be shunned themselves, even though they may not actually believe it themselves. No one wants to be rejected, and sometimes people will lie about their own beliefs in order to be accepted by the people they follow. That's sort of human nature, though, I think.

Exactly how the Holocaust was "allowed" to happen.  Although, Germans feared more than just being shunned if they protested what was going on.  But the same mentality was in effect.
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