Author Topic: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality  (Read 3536 times)

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Offline redyoshi49q

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Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« on: January 31, 2013, 03:56:00 pm »
As some of you know, the Boy Scouts of America has historically taken a stance against homosexuality.  It's possible that that may cease to be the case.

Having said that, from my experience from participating in the organization, I don't think that such a change would be as seamless as the news report I linked might suggest.  It seems to me that many of the Scoutmasters would be against this measure, and I've already gotten an email that seeks to rally support against it.

If you are an LGBT supporter involved with Scouting (or if you know anyone like this), please get in touch with National to talk to them about this measure.  Bear in mind, though, that you may receive sanctions if you are a scout/scoutmaster and come out as gay.  Please *don't* call them if you feel like you won't be able to do so with a level head, though; this is unlikely to elicit a favorable view of your position.

Below is a quote from the email I got as an adult leader.  I've removed names and emails for privacy reasons and have omitted the images, but the content is otherwise unchanged.

Quote
Rec'd this from ___________.  From what I understand that I learned this evening, national was going to leave it to the Charter Organization to determine what is accepatable for the chartered units. 
 
__________
----- Original Message -----
From: _______________
To: _______________
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:49 PM
Subject: FW: BREAKING NEWS: Will the Boy Scouts stand up to bullies?

 

From:____________________
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:29 PM
To: __________
Subject: Fw: BREAKING NEWS: Will the Boy Scouts stand up to bullies?

______,
 
You may want to forward this to the other persons on the troop committee.  I think all of these persons should be aware of this latest development regardless of whether they want to act.
 
I personally am going to encourage the national office of BSA by telephone and email to stand firm on this policy of excluding homosexuals from being scout leaders
 
_______






The Boy Scouts of America has indicated it may bow to pressure and change its longstanding policy concerning homosexuality. Please call the Boy Scouts as soon as possible at 972-580-2000 and encourage them to stand strong.
January 28, 2013

 

Dear _______,

For decades, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) have heroically withstood attacks from homosexual activists. Now, officials from the organization have indicated that this may be about to change. The BSA says that it is "discussing potentially removing the national membership restriction regarding sexual orientation."

"Be prepared." The motto of the venerable organization that has helped develop countless boys into men, preparedness is not only an aspiration, but a descriptor. Thus far they've been prepared to withstand the constant bullying by those who work to bring down all that the millions of dedicated Scouts and Scout leaders stand for.

A departure from their long-held policies would be devastating to an organization that has prided itself on the development of character in boys. In fact, according to a recent Gallup survey, only 42 percent of Americans support changing the policy to allow homosexual scout leaders.

As the BSA board meets next week, it is crucial that they hear from those who stand with them and their current policy regarding homosexuality. Please call the Boy Scouts of America at 972-580-2000 and tell them that you want to see the organization stand firm in its moral values and respect the right of parents to discuss these sexual topics with their children.

Please call the Boy Scouts at 972-580-2000!

Sincerely,

______________

P.S. Please forward this email to at least one friend.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 12:33:25 pm »
It's a shame, but changes like this are slow in coming and even slower to
accept.
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Offline Arashi_Calunata

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 12:15:39 am »
Part of me finds the fact I used to be a Scout and am now gay strangely hilarious. Just thought I'd say that.
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Offline Natura Wolf

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 03:11:13 am »
I never was part of Scouts.
It's rules like this that are forcing people to either shudder in fear or be pushed into publically openly gay.

It's no ones business.  Wouldn't be bothered if my leader was black, gay or female or all three.

Offline Leeseetsa

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 07:22:51 am »
More importantly, why ahould it matter? It doesn't matter if your gay, strait, or some other orientation- if you want to join for the good morals, what should stop you? And they allready run extinsive background tests on the leaders- how likely is it that a gay scout leader is a child molester? If we do the checks right, not very likely at all.
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Offline flatout442

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 09:55:33 am »
I am a Scout. I don't like this at all, the Scout Oath ends Physically Strong, Mentally Awake, and Morally Straight also if Scouts allows gays Scouting for Boys most likely will disband completely because the LDS troops which make up over 50% of Boy Scouts will all disband and the BSA will lose hundreds of thousands in revenue to keep the program running.
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Offline dodbringr

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 09:14:58 pm »
To put it rather bluntly, we think the gay ban should be lifted. We are a Scout, and we are gay, so obviously we would say that. However, even if we weren't gay, we would say the same thing. A Scout is Courteous, regardless of race, orientation, or background. A Scout is Kind in the same way. It doesn't make sense to be prejudiced against gays when the only thing to be prejudiced against is a personal choice. Morals aren't all exactly the same for everyone, and the BSA shouldn't make others feel like there is only one code to follow, nor should they make anyone outside of that should be banned and shunned for it. So what if someone is gay?? It doesn't affect anyone but the individual. Heck, no one else in the troop would need to know. Maybe it's just something you don't bring up at a meeting or a campout or whatever your troop does. It doesn't need to be SUCH a big deal!! Now, if a Scout or Scoutmaster is gay and is being inappropriate, then it would be understandable to ban them. Otherwise, it shouldn't be a problem. Only one other Scout in our troop knows we are gay, and he is perfectly fine with it. He honestly doesn't care, and that was the end of the conversation. We have to wonder: Why can't everyone else be like this?? Being shunned for no reason other than your orientation is pretty much the same thing as being prejudiced for your skin color, in all honesty. So why isn't the equality given to African-Americans and every other race on Earth being given to gays? We may never know, but it just doesn't make sense to us.

Offline animagusurreal

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 04:59:17 am »
^

It doesn't make sense to me either.

Reading these letters that were quoted...I find nothing "moral," "strong" or "heroic" about discriminating against gays. The idea of the gays as the "bullies" and the huge, well-funded, well-established organization with discriminatory policies as the "victims" is so backwards I almost can't fathom the thinking behind it.

I'm asexual and have never been interested in scouting or going into the woods for any reason, but I hope that they do decide to allow their members to be openly gay (or whatever sexual orientation they are). As a private organization, I suppose they have a right to set their rules and allow who they want. However, they should not be surprised when society eventually views them in the same manner as we now look upon organizations that discriminated against women, minorities, etc., because it really is the same thing.



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Offline WhiteStorm

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 12:58:25 pm »
I am a Scout. I don't like this at all, the Scout Oath ends Physically Strong, Mentally Awake, and Morally Straight also if Scouts allows gays Scouting for Boys most likely will disband completely because the LDS troops which make up over 50% of Boy Scouts will all disband and the BSA will lose hundreds of thousands in revenue to keep the program running.

'Morally' is probably supposed to have some impact on the meaning you take from 'straight' here, in much the same way that 'mentally' hopefully clarifies that you need not abstain from sleep for as long as you're a member.
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Offline Ziel

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 07:56:09 pm »
I am a Scout. I don't like this at all, the Scout Oath ends Physically Strong, Mentally Awake, and Morally Straight also if Scouts allows gays Scouting for Boys most likely will disband completely because the LDS troops which make up over 50% of Boy Scouts will all disband and the BSA will lose hundreds of thousands in revenue to keep the program running.

The proposal was/is to allow the individual troops decide on their own whether or not they'll allow openly-gay members to join. The LDS troops can elect to hold true to their values and not allow it, while other groups with different values can choose to allow them to join. There's nothing there forcing all troops to allow it.

At least that's in theory. In reality, the LDS will try to threaten to dissociate from the BSA in order to coax the BSA into not changing their rules. I, for one, would like to see the BSA call that bluff.

That said, I will admit that I never did go through the program myself. I've just kinda been watching from the sidelines. Sadly, I haven't seen too much talk about the issue in the news. So I'm assuming it did as all political issues do, and has stalled somewhere and not made any real progress recently.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 08:06:47 pm by Ziel »

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Offline flatout442

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2013, 10:01:24 pm »
Last Wednesday (when our troop meets) one of the patrol leaders and I were talking about the whole issue and we came to the conclusion that the BSA is just gonna keep putting it off until the issue goes away, and that does seem like what their doing.
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Offline dodbringr

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 12:02:19 am »
Last Wednesday (when our troop meets) one of the patrol leaders and I were talking about the whole issue and we came to the conclusion that the BSA is just gonna keep putting it off until the issue goes away, and that does seem like what their doing.

Unfortunately for them, this is something that won't go away. Just like the gay marriage issue, people will keep going back and forth on the topic until a decision is finally made. In the meantime, campaigns, protests, and meeting will continue to occur all across the country.

This is all based off of our observations. ^^  If we are missing something, please let us know.  ;)

Offline Holly Wolf

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2013, 08:38:21 pm »
You're gonna find homophobes anywhere you look. It's a sad, sad thing that we must accept.
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Offline Keo

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2013, 08:56:09 pm »
My experience with scouts was horrible.

When I went to scouts (Baden-Powell Scouts' Association) we had challenges such as how many cars you can jump over or how many times you can run across a busy road without getting killed - then we'd get badges for doing things we didn't do much of just to show our parents we had learnt a skill. We'd also do this ceremony thing where'd we open and close our session and someone would pull guns and v signs at you with their fingers. I did beaver, wolf cub and some scout. The other members were very homophobic and I'd doubt a homosexual leader would feel safe. A rumour that I was gay occurred when I was a cub scout and this also spread to school, which added to my existent bullying :(

Though, I don't see why they there should be any discrimination in leader selection.

Offline Ziel

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 07:35:04 pm »
Well, it's done

Motion passed with 61% of votes in favor.

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Offline Mylo

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2013, 08:01:25 pm »
Well, it's done

Motion passed with 61% of votes in favor.

How interesting.

Offline Ziel

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2013, 08:07:17 pm »
Well, it's done

Motion passed with 61% of votes in favor.

How interesting.

It will be interesting to see how things develop through the rest of the year. Wonder how many of the sponsors that threatened to quite sponsoring will actually follow through with it.

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Offline flatout442

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2013, 12:34:58 am »
Well... Looks like the BSA will go away, because of this all the LDS troops will disband and the BSA will lose over 50% of its revenue. Multiple scouts in LDS troops have told me this, I don't know if this is true or not but I will say this until it happens or it doesn't. Our troop has already decided that we won't allow gays, but if there is a gay boy in our troop it's fine by me as long as he isn't open about it.

I do not agree with this ruling because the last line in the Scout Oath is Morally Straight even if your definition of morally straight is different than mine, it's still (this word will have to work until I find a better one) 'wrong'. I don't have anything against gays but to me it's just wrong to be gay, I won't go into detail because I'm tired and right now I'm having a hard time thinking. Anyways that's all I can think of to say for right now.
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Offline dodbringr

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2013, 01:53:44 am »
As far as troops disbanding, we highly doubt that an enormously significant amount of them will actually do so. Unless we have a very wrong interpretation of the morals of Scouting, most troops will simply continue with business as usual. We're not openly gay, but even if we were, our troop would still allow us to participate as if we had never said anything to begin with. As far as LDS troops are concerned, we again highly doubt that they will disband. It would be one of the most petty and childish actions we've ever seen, and it would put more of a stain on the reputation of Scouting than it supposedly would to allow gays to begin with. To think that Scouts, who are supposed to help others in any way they can, would suddenly become intolerant toward a very large group of people simply because someone said being gay is wrong is something we can't even begin to conceive. Besides, we can guarantee that not a single troop in the entire Scouting program can give a valid reason as to why gays are immoral and should not be allowed. We realize that certain religions say that being gay is wrong, but there are millions of people, ourself included, who could argue for years over the logic behind that statement. Besides, doesn't the Bible say something to the effect of "Do unto others as you would have them do to you"? Doesn't anyone realize that this basically says that any sort of prejudice or intolerance is wrong?? We may not be religious, far from it actually, but we have enough common sense to know how to interpret the Bible, and that line basically nullifies any and all religious arguments pertaining to why homosexuality is wrong. If anyone can find a line that proves us wrong, feel free to share! In the meantime, use the brain cells that we are certain someone gave you to come up with a logical reason why gays are wrong. We digress, however. Bottom line, no, the BSA won't go away because of this, and no, the LDS troops won't all disband. Chances are, none of them will. We're glad the ban has been lifted, and we're glad to know that it won't change a darn thing.

Oh yes, one last note, "Morally Straight" can be interpreted in all sorts of ways, and they all vary from one person to the next. We guarantee that it isn't a universal belief that gay is wrong, so please don't try to portray that notion. Thank you, and have a nice day.

Offline Mylo

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2013, 09:41:00 am »
I don't have anything against gays but to me it's just wrong to be gay, I won't go into detail because I'm tired and right now I'm having a hard time thinking. Anyways that's all I can think of to say for right now.

Oh yes, one last note, "Morally Straight" can be interpreted in all sorts of ways, and they all vary from one person to the next. We guarantee that it isn't a universal belief that gay is wrong, so please don't try to portray that notion. Thank you, and have a nice day.


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Offline flatout442

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2013, 12:23:02 pm »
Besides, we can guarantee that not a single troop in the entire Scouting program can give a valid reason as to why gays are immoral and should not be allowed.

Challenge accepted. I'll get an answer from my troop next meeting.
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Offline dodbringr

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2013, 01:39:39 pm »
Besides, we can guarantee that not a single troop in the entire Scouting program can give a valid reason as to why gays are immoral and should not be allowed.

Challenge accepted. I'll get an answer from my troop next meeting.

Go for it, but be prepared to give a decent explanation when you get back. We'd like to see that.  ;)

Offline Mylo

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2013, 01:45:40 pm »
Guys please keep it cool. Let's continue the conversation calmly and respectfully.

Offline WhiteStorm

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2013, 01:58:04 pm »
Well... Looks like the BSA will go away, because of this all the LDS troops will disband and the BSA will lose over 50% of its revenue. Multiple scouts in LDS troops have told me this, I don't know if this is true or not but I will say this until it happens or it doesn't. Our troop has already decided that we won't allow gays, but if there is a gay boy in our troop it's fine by me as long as he isn't open about it.

I do not agree with this ruling because the last line in the Scout Oath is Morally Straight even if your definition of morally straight is different than mine, it's still (this word will have to work until I find a better one) 'wrong'. I don't have anything against gays but to me it's just wrong to be gay, I won't go into detail because I'm tired and right now I'm having a hard time thinking. Anyways that's all I can think of to say for right now.

I find this line of reasoning deeply confusing. Given that people consider different things moral or immoral as you've mentioned, it would seem that those who take this oath either:

-swear to keep to the organization's official version of what is and isn't moral. Since the organization has held a vote and it's been decided gays will be allowed as members, and being a member includes this oath, it follows that they must not now (if they ever were) officially be considered immoral. But if this were the case you'd have nothing to worry about, as they would be capable of simultaneously being gay and holding to the oath.

Which brings me to another option,

-swear to keep to what they personally believe is moral. In this case, since you believe being gay is immoral, you'd be breaking your vow if you realized you were gay and didn't resign. This still doesn't explain why the oath would prove problematic for others, though, so we need a third option.

-swear to keep to what they personally believe is moral, and to hold others to that belief.

Yet that still doesn't explain why you'd be okay with it as long as they weren't openly gay. Is there a clause saying you can let them get away with not being morally straight, as long as they're subtle?
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Offline dodbringr

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Re: Boy Scouts Policy on Homosexuality
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2013, 02:29:10 pm »
Guys please keep it cool. Let's continue the conversation calmly and respectfully.

Sorry about that. We were just a little offended, that's all.  :-[  We'll keep it cool, we promise.