Author Topic: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states  (Read 2708 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kobuk

  • The "Malamute Dewd"
  • Hero Member
  • Species: Anthro Alaskan Malamute (Husky)
  • #1 Dew drinker.
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 27273
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2015, 06:04:41 pm »
Quote
I think gays have a bright future in the US. However... I worry how an increasingly marginalized conservative culture will respond to this. I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that will we see a rise in right-wing extremism over it. The divide between the bible belt and the rest of the US grows larger each day. If socio-political conditions favor it, we might see the rise of homegrown fundamentalist terrorism in the south. A Christian analogue to the IS, in other words. Imitators will always follow.

^ This. Or worse yet, another second American Civil War.  :o


Generally, I'm opposed to gay marriage, but only partially. If it were two guys marrying or two women marrying, then do whatever you want I guess.  :P It's your life.

But here's where I draw the line and am opposed to gay marriage: If a woman (or man) has a child (From a previous divorce, adoption, or whatever.) and wants to marry another woman (or man). I tend to feel that children should be living with a mother and father. Not two mothers or two fathers.  >:(  If there's a child living with two women or two men, then what happens to the child? Will they turn out gay as well? We don't need more children turning out gay because they had two married mothers or two married fathers.



Click link below for more fursuit information. ;)
http://forums.furtopia.org/kobuk's-fursuit-guides/

Offline photalysis

  • Jr. Member
  • Species: SynthServal
  • LIAR
  • **
  • Male
  • Posts: 58
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2015, 07:16:32 pm »
As far as I know there isn't much of a historical precedent for gay couples raising children, so the only way to know the consequences of it for sure are to allow it and see what happens. Same-sex parents may or may not affect the sexuality of their children, it is hard to say at this point. Parents certainly affect the worldview of their offspring. I think a far more direct line of questioning is whether or not that is a problem in the first place. The possibility of children becoming gay as a result of adoptive policy does not worry me, assuming it was ever a possibility in the first place.

There is one thing that concerns me about same-sex parents, and that is the fact that it still bears a stigma that the child may be subjected to. That is more a flaw of society than an issue intrinsic to that parental dynamic, however. The parents will have to take extra care to raise the child in an area where he/she will not be made fun of, and face the very real possibility of being resented by the child later in life if he/she feels their childhood was unfair because of it.

With all that said, the bar for what level of responsibility over a child's future should be assumed is set very, very low. I think many children are conceived out of self-interest or foolishly naive ideas of parenting. In situations where the rights of parents and children are conflicting our culture tends to favor the right of procreation over a child's right to a good life and a secure future. Children in rural countries are still bore for the explicit purpose of providing labor and caring for the parents in old age. It's arguably still a phenomenon in the US as the government gives financial incentives for having children.
Any possible consequences of being raised by a same-sex couple are minor in comparison. There will be responsible and irresponsible gay couples just as there are with the straight variety. What matters most is that the parents act in the best interests of the child at all times.

Myself, I never knew what it was like to live with both a mother and a father as they broke up when I was a tot. I can safely say that the lack of a stable environment was more decisive than the sex of anyone caring for me at the time, a cohesive family structure where everyone is happy matters more than anything.
a.k.a. Tuvoi ->◊<-

Offline Kaiden

  • Sr. Member
  • Species: Acinonyx Jubatus (Cheetah)
  • ****
  • Male
  • Posts: 257
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2015, 11:56:18 pm »
Quote
I think gays have a bright future in the US. However... I worry how an increasingly marginalized conservative culture will respond to this. I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that will we see a rise in right-wing extremism over it. The divide between the bible belt and the rest of the US grows larger each day. If socio-political conditions favor it, we might see the rise of homegrown fundamentalist terrorism in the south. A Christian analogue to the IS, in other words. Imitators will always follow.

^ This. Or worse yet, another second American Civil War.  :o


Generally, I'm opposed to gay marriage, but only partially. If it were two guys marrying or two women marrying, then do whatever you want I guess.  :P It's your life.

But here's where I draw the line and am opposed to gay marriage: If a woman (or man) has a child (From a previous divorce, adoption, or whatever.) and wants to marry another woman (or man). I tend to feel that children should be living with a mother and father. Not two mothers or two fathers.  >:(  If there's a child living with two women or two men, then what happens to the child? Will they turn out gay as well? We don't need more children turning out gay because they had two married mothers or two married fathers.


A child raised by two same sex partners would be just as good off as one raised by a straight couple.

Many gay kids and straight ones have straight parents, but the gay ones still turn out gay.

Back on topic: Never thought I'd live to see marriage equality in the US.
Every now and then...

Offline photalysis

  • Jr. Member
  • Species: SynthServal
  • LIAR
  • **
  • Male
  • Posts: 58
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2015, 02:25:57 am »
Back on topic: Never thought I'd live to see marriage equality in the US.
I expected it in five or ten years time, but if someone had told me it would happen in 2015 I'd be incredulous. It may just be my area but I had no idea the nation's values as a whole had become so progressive. I'm as surprised as you are. :D
a.k.a. Tuvoi ->◊<-

Offline Keitsu

  • Species: Wolf
  • I'm a Disney wolf :P
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 1526
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2015, 03:01:12 am »
Quote
I think gays have a bright future in the US. However... I worry how an increasingly marginalized conservative culture will respond to this. I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that will we see a rise in right-wing extremism over it. The divide between the bible belt and the rest of the US grows larger each day. If socio-political conditions favor it, we might see the rise of homegrown fundamentalist terrorism in the south. A Christian analogue to the IS, in other words. Imitators will always follow.

^ This. Or worse yet, another second American Civil War.  :o


Generally, I'm opposed to gay marriage, but only partially. If it were two guys marrying or two women marrying, then do whatever you want I guess.  :P It's your life.

But here's where I draw the line and am opposed to gay marriage: If a woman (or man) has a child (From a previous divorce, adoption, or whatever.) and wants to marry another woman (or man). I tend to feel that children should be living with a mother and father. Not two mothers or two fathers.  >:(  If there's a child living with two women or two men, then what happens to the child? Will they turn out gay as well? We don't need more children turning out gay because they had two married mothers or two married fathers.

I'm not sure if you are being serious here.

People aren't gay because their parents were gay. I didn't have gay parents, so why am I gay? I think it's safe to assume that most gay people had a mother and a father.

Also, for some reason people have the idea that everyone will turn gay and then we'd have issues retaining the population. Like, really? That's not how it works people.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 03:23:30 am by Sciex »

Offline Shim

  • But wait, there's more!
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 4498

Offline GrayWolf448

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Gray Folf
  • Sciex is not a disney wolf
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2015, 07:26:49 am »
I'm not overly fond of marriage as a custom, but legal sanction is an important tipping point for cultural acceptance of gays. Many equate legality with morality on the basis that laws are written to enforce good behavior, and take it on faith that there must be good reasons for their existence. To these people morality is merely an issue of consensus.

To these people, gays threaten them by changing society in ways that make it inhospitable to them, and it's infringing their basic human right to belong. In a peculiar way I sympathize. It's not just or responsible, but I can see why they feel that way. Nevertheless, the "freedom" to oppress others on grounds of religious liberty is indefensible. Tyranny over others is not a human right, it is a negation of rights. Laws enabling this practice are inimical to a free society and ought to be struck from the book.
only thing i care about marriage is the legal benefits, and the non religious meaning of marriage (tho i can easily fulfill that without needing to call it marraige).

well this is pretty much like the time when African Americans gained their rights (other people changed to accept them in the law). for me at least all i want is equal treatment from the government, im not asking for those who disagree with people being gay to accept them. they can hate me but as long as i get the same rights, and non bias rules im fine.


Generally, I'm opposed to gay marriage, but only partially. If it were two guys marrying or two women marrying, then do whatever you want I guess.  :P It's your life.

But here's where I draw the line and am opposed to gay marriage: If a woman (or man) has a child (From a previous divorce, adoption, or whatever.) and wants to marry another woman (or man). I tend to feel that children should be living with a mother and father. Not two mothers or two fathers.  >:(  If there's a child living with two women or two men, then what happens to the child? Will they turn out gay as well? We don't need more children turning out gay because they had two married mothers or two married fathers.


"But here's where I draw the line and am opposed to gay marriage:"
the thing is that what you are saying doesnt really have much to do with gay marraige... the same thing can easily happen even if the couple arent married (if you are talking about the legal bond, then that doesnt really have much to do with anything)

" Will they turn out gay as well?"
i doubt it works that way... the child might act like the parents (in other words act gay) but i doubt he/she will turn out finding the same gender attractive. i was raised in a strait family (supportive of gays tho) yet i happened to turn out gay, it would most likely be the same if both my legal parents were the same gender just my personality would be different.

"We don't need more children turning out gay because they had two married mothers or two married fathers." well even if they turn out gay i dont really see any negative things about that. the world all ready kinda has too many people so this actually helps out a little (barely has an effect tho) its not like there will be more gay people then strait.

 

Offline Loc

  • Tea-obsessed transhumanist and Buddhist.
  • Species: Cyborg snow leopard
  • The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
  • *
  • Posts: 4619
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2015, 09:06:10 am »
But here's where I draw the line and am opposed to gay marriage: If a woman (or man) has a child (From a previous divorce, adoption, or whatever.) and wants to marry another woman (or man). I tend to feel that children should be living with a mother and father. Not two mothers or two fathers.  >:(  If there's a child living with two women or two men, then what happens to the child? Will they turn out gay as well? We don't need more children turning out gay because they had two married mothers or two married fathers.

a) You can't catch gay by being around gay people. Sexuality doesn't work like that. If it did, then I'd be straight because both my parents are straight. But I'm not. I know people raised in exactly the same households by the same parents who have completely different sexualities (and often gender identities as well). And this is not a rare occurrence. If parental orientation affected the outcome of the kids, this would not happen as much as it does.
b) If you want to blame anyone for making more gay kids, blame the straight parents that give birth to them :P

c) "We don't need any more children turning out gay". Why not? Implying that gay people are somehow inferior or less good than straight people? It's not like we need to worry about the population declining horrifically if (somehow) gay couples infect their kids with TEH GAY, because the world has more people than it can reasonably support anyway.

All that gay couples adopting kids will do it encourage their kids to be more accepting of others and less likely to hide their own sexuality, neither of which are bad things in any way, shape or form.


Avatar by Shibara,  sig by Miser

0.1.0 carrot tail leopard gecko, Gelbstoff
0.1.0 bearded dragon, Dany
0.0.1 amel stripe het hypo corn snake, Vivec

FFSc3ar A+ C D- H- M P+ R++ T++ W Z- Sf# RLS* a cn+ d+ e++ f h+++ i++ j+ p+++ sf#

Offline Yip

  • Species: vulpes vulpes
  • *
  • Female
  • Posts: 4005
    • Furaffinity
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2015, 06:36:31 pm »
_
You asked. And now you know. (:  (for some reason I find that very amusing)


I expected it in five or ten years time, but if someone had told me it would happen in 2015 I'd be incredulous. It may just be my area but I had no idea the nation's values as a whole had become so progressive. I'm as surprised as you are. :D
I am also really surprised it happened so soon. The first time I heard about the court decision, I literally didn't believe it. I thought it had to be fake until I started seeing more and more stuff about talking about it.

Offline Synaptic Road

  • Jr. Member
  • Species: A duality: all and none!
  • You see all you know, but don't know all you see!
  • **
  • Male
  • Posts: 57
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2015, 11:00:08 pm »
As much as I support the legalization of same-sex marriage as per the US Supreme Court's ruling, I question it at the same time; more specifically, how it has anything to do with the Constitution or the necessity of "legalizing" it in the first place.  I remember hearing Chief Justice John Roberts and how he said that "it has nothing to do with the Constitution."  That was a statement made out of dissent of the ruling, and although I don't think he quite realizes it, he does have a valid point...lol.  Here's the breakdown:

When two people marry, regardless of gender or sexual identities, what is the reason for the marriage occurring in the first place?  Certainly, there've been instances where it was only for "money" or "benefits," but seriously...when we think of two people getting married, we usually think of "love" as the reason, right?  The reason Chief Justice Roberts' dissent amuses me is because "love" does in fact have nothing to do with the Constitution, and it has nothing to do with "religion," either.  It's simply something that happens between and among humans - put simply, it's on a more fundamental level than "legality" or "religion."  That fundamental level is called "human nature."  "Love" is something humans have felt and expressed for a hell of a lot longer than the US Constitution and even "religion" have been around; perhaps the precursory humans may have felt it only in the heterosexual sense (that's a shot in the dark from me, so I'm not about to make any claims), but humanity today isn't "precursory" now, is it?  Just as we have evolved over the course of time, so too have our expressions of the human aspect called "love."  Yet, though our expressions of love may have changed, "love" itself - and everything on the emotional level that comes with it - has not.

Why should it matter that two people of the same gender marry, and why should it be any different than a "heterosexual" marriage?  If two people marry out of mutual love for one another; if that love endures and holds the marriage and the partners together, exactly how much do the genders of the partners even matter?  Love is the reason most people marry as it is, and love is what keeps a marriage strong - therein lies the "sanctity of marriage" that's commonly used in arguments by religious types in opposition of same-sex marriage.  The only way to actually defile that sanctity is for two individuals to marry for a reason that isn't "love," though that's a subjective statement on my part.

Put simply, from my perspective, same-sex marriage should never have been an issue within humanity (not just "America") in the first place, as the most important element of marriage - "love" - is still there.

Kobuk, I'm not going to quote you here with my own disagreement because quite a few others have already done so; the only thing I'm gonna say is that you are by no means obligated to agree with the Court's ruling or with my or anyone else's perspectives here...however, "love" is something that goes beyond individual aspects like gender or sexual orientation - it's simply a part of the common ground all humans share, called "humanity."
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 11:10:35 pm by Synaptic Road »

Offline Timberwuff

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Grey Timberwolf
  • Just your everyday wolf
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 1973
    • BitzaWolf.com
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2015, 01:06:47 am »
I think the misquoted "legalization" is actually instead them saying "making gay marriage illegal, is illegal."

In other words, the states have no right to say gays cannot marry.

I could be way off. That's just my interpretation.
'      !
/ \_..._ / \   Follow me on Twitter!
| /  \_ /  \|
|   o.-.o   |
 \  ( O )   / 
 /'-- U --' \
 |    .:.     | /\ 
 |   /:;:\  |`  /
 |   |:;:|  |_ -' 
 /   |'-' |  \   
`""`    `""`    (Wuff character by Winter)

Offline Synaptic Road

  • Jr. Member
  • Species: A duality: all and none!
  • You see all you know, but don't know all you see!
  • **
  • Male
  • Posts: 57
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2015, 01:20:47 am »
No, I had "legalization" in quotes because it should never have needed "legalization" in the first place.  When two people marry, it's generally because they love each other mutually (though I'm not implying that any relationship is "perfect"), and "love" is something that should never have to be "legalized."

Offline Timberwuff

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Grey Timberwolf
  • Just your everyday wolf
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 1973
    • BitzaWolf.com
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2015, 01:36:27 am »
Oh! I wasn't talking about your use of "legalization" but instead talking about how the media uses the term "legalization".
'      !
/ \_..._ / \   Follow me on Twitter!
| /  \_ /  \|
|   o.-.o   |
 \  ( O )   / 
 /'-- U --' \
 |    .:.     | /\ 
 |   /:;:\  |`  /
 |   |:;:|  |_ -' 
 /   |'-' |  \   
`""`    `""`    (Wuff character by Winter)

Offline Synaptic Road

  • Jr. Member
  • Species: A duality: all and none!
  • You see all you know, but don't know all you see!
  • **
  • Male
  • Posts: 57
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2015, 02:39:13 am »
Oh, pffft.  My bad, haha.  But then again, I did use quotes a LOT, myself - no wonder I got confused!  xD

I don't put too much value in what's broadcast on the media, though - either on TV or on the Internet.  There's a lot of spinning that goes on in those news corporations, and it's all just to generate a big viewer profit in the end.

Offline GrayWolf448

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Gray Folf
  • Sciex is not a disney wolf
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2015, 04:57:17 am »
As much as I support the legalization of same-sex marriage as per the US Supreme Court's ruling, I question it at the same time; more specifically, how it has anything to do with the Constitution or the necessity of "legalizing" it in the first place.

When two people marry, regardless of gender or sexual identities, what is the reason for the marriage occurring in the first place?

Why should it matter that two people of the same gender marry, and why should it be any different than a "heterosexual" marriage?

i think what people mean by it has to do with the constitution is the part where it said everyone is treated equally, meaning they get the same rights (the right to marry was kept away from gay people so that's withholding a right that others have)

for me the only reason i care for marriage is for the legal benefits (less time messing around with the laws/bills more time with my partner) having the same rights (dont care what the right is we are meant to all have the same rights) and just what marriage stands for (this one i dont need the government involved but meh)

ya... for some reason people just love to make a big deal about it even some atheists are against it.. (the people who use religion at least have a unjustifiable excuse)

Offline Old Rabbit

  • Species: Rabbit Artist
  • Official Birthday Wisher.
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 15311
    • Art by Oldrabbit
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2015, 01:42:34 pm »
Quote
I think gays have a bright future in the US. However... I worry how an increasingly marginalized conservative culture will respond to this. I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that will we see a rise in right-wing extremism over it. The divide between the bible belt and the rest of the US grows larger each day. If socio-political conditions favor it, we might see the rise of homegrown fundamentalist terrorism in the south. A Christian analogue to the IS, in other words. Imitators will always follow.

^ This. Or worse yet, another second American Civil War.  :o


Generally, I'm opposed to gay marriage, but only partially. If it were two guys marrying or two women marrying, then do whatever you want I guess.  :P It's your life.

But here's where I draw the line and am opposed to gay marriage: If a woman (or man) has a child (From a previous divorce, adoption, or whatever.) and wants to marry another woman (or man). I tend to feel that children should be living with a mother and father. Not two mothers or two fathers.  >:(  If there's a child living with two women or two men, then what happens to the child? Will they turn out gay as well? We don't need more children turning out gay because they had two married mothers or two married fathers.


I really don't think environment will cause someone to be Gay or Straight. It should
however help them to be more understanding of others. After all most Gay's grew up
in a Heterosexual environment. So why shouldn't the reverse be true.





Avatar drawn by me.
oldrabbit.com

Offline Synaptic Road

  • Jr. Member
  • Species: A duality: all and none!
  • You see all you know, but don't know all you see!
  • **
  • Male
  • Posts: 57
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2015, 01:50:46 pm »
Quote from: GrayWolf448
i think what people mean by it has to do with the constitution is the part where it said everyone is treated equally, meaning they get the same rights (the right to marry was kept away from gay people so that's withholding a right that others have))

I know that's what people meant, but my point was that "love has nothing to do with the Constitution."  However, I've taken the same perspective about "equal rights" as well - the way I advocate "human rights" is by treating all humans as human, with respect to each human's individuality, and without exempting myself from any of this because I too am human.  The only "equality" there is in humanity is just that: the common ground called "humanity" - from there, though, the fundamental aspect of humanity called "diversity" shines through.  The Constitution outlines the principles of "equal rights" in America, but it has no bearing on individuality and doesn't really even detail on the concept - it's a "general" outline, not an "individual" outline, and amendments to the Constitution don't change that, either.

"Equal rights" isn't simply about "treating everyone equally" - it's also about respecting individuality...something that many people no longer see - not just in America, but throughout the world.  Same-sex marriage, along with countless other issues, falls into this.  The most a nation's outline of rights can do is serve...well, an outline, and act as the foundation for legislation as per that outline.  The United States Constitution is no exception to this.  Unfortunately, that's not where the opposition to same-sex marriage comes from - that issue lies in humanity, which is where "politicians" and "lawmakers" are found.

Quote
for me the only reason i care for marriage is for the legal benefits (less time messing around with the laws/bills more time with my partner) having the same rights (dont care what the right is we are meant to all have the same rights) and just what marriage stands for (this one i dont need the government involved but meh)

Personally, I'm not interested in marriage and never really have been - not because of anything in the "legal" sense, benefits, rights, or anything else of the sort, but because it's something that I don't really gravitate toward, myself.  Technically, I'm asexual, but that actually has very little to do with it in my case.  However, it's out of compassion for others that I support their marriages even so, because humanity could use a lot less apathy, honestly.  Regarding "rights," just as everyone should have the right to marry, so should everyone have the right to not marry if they so choose - still, if people marry more because they want "legal benefits" and less because of "mutual love," that mentality will make itself apparent in the marriage and will more than likely ruin it.  It's a good way to lose both the marriage and the "benefits" that come with it.

Quote
ya... for some reason people just love to make a big deal about it even some atheists are against it.. (the people who use religion at least have a unjustifiable excuse)

Interestingly enough, I'm an atheist myself, but I have an issue with the so-called "incessant Bible-bashing atheists" - something that's meant for a different topic entirely.  I've never had an issue with same-sex marriage or a lot of the things many people whine about nowadays.  "Live and let live" is really important to me, after all, and not just for "humans."  d:

Offline Aloneness

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Hella Gay Wolf
  • Великий ведра огонь!
  • *****
  • Female
  • Posts: 861
    • DeviantArt
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2015, 11:05:29 pm »
I wish the Colbert report was still around cause they'd have a field day with fox news, and just the whole thing in general.
Ren's Translation Note:
Konnichiwa = Hello, Nani = What?, Великий ведра огонь! = Great Buckets of Fire!

Avi by Haru

Offline GrayWolf448

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Gray Folf
  • Sciex is not a disney wolf
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2015, 09:22:35 am »
still, if people marry more because they want "legal benefits" and less because of "mutual love," that mentality will make itself apparent in the marriage and will more than likely ruin it.  It's a good way to lose both the marriage and the "benefits" that come with it.

yep that can easily cause problems sad that it happens often (even worse when people marry then divorce just to take money from the other person)

Offline Synaptic Road

  • Jr. Member
  • Species: A duality: all and none!
  • You see all you know, but don't know all you see!
  • **
  • Male
  • Posts: 57
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2015, 01:47:43 pm »
Yeeahhh, uh...that's a really good way to defile the "sanctity of marriage," and obviously, the genders of the partners have nothing to do with that kind of nonsense in the end.  That kind of decision is an expression of "free will in humans."

...Of course, there are people who wouldn't see that.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 05:22:57 pm by Synaptic Road »

Offline Acton

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Republican Black Bear
  • Unrepentant Furry, Otaku and Anglican.
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 2366
    • Acton Hermitage
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2015, 12:06:34 am »
AS a libertarian I cannot  deny to adults wish to make a civil contract or  even cal it marriage, like they have a right  to define marriage.  My problem is  by nature right do not  conflict  with rights of others as in the case  bakers in Portland or my church. I not sure most in LGBT  the issue is about love as it is getting into the face of the rest of society. It seems to me when it come to  gay man the issue is autonomy which  make me wonder why get married? will the follow the same rules of fidelity ion marriage? 

Offline Yip

  • Species: vulpes vulpes
  • *
  • Female
  • Posts: 4005
    • Furaffinity
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2015, 04:34:14 am »
AS a libertarian I cannot  deny to adults wish to make a civil contract or  even cal it marriage, like they have a right  to define marriage.  My problem is  by nature right do not  conflict  with rights of others as in the case  bakers in Portland or my church. I not sure most in LGBT  the issue is about love as it is getting into the face of the rest of society. It seems to me when it come to  gay man the issue is autonomy which  make me wonder why get married? will the follow the same rules of fidelity ion marriage?
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm having a very hard time deciphering what you are saying here.  So if I'm misunderstanding you I apologize.

My problem is  by nature right do not  conflict  with rights of others as in the case  bakers in Portland or my church.
It's a bit rough, but I read this as: "My problem is the possibility of their rights conflicting with the rights of others."
If you are concerned about businesses being forced to do business with same-sex couples or for churches to have to marry same-sex couples, then I suggest you take that same worry, and replace "same-sex couple" with something else that you don't find objectionable.  For example, should a business be able to refuse service to someone because they don't like their religion? Should a church be able to refuse to marry a couple because they are black?

"I not sure most in LGBT  the issue is about love as it is getting into the face of the rest of society.
I read this as: "For most LGBT people, I'm not sure if the issue is about love so much as getting in the face of the rest of society"
I'm pretty sure it is about love for a lot of LGBT people, but it's also about the benefits that automatically come with being married in the sight of the law. Something which most heterosexual people seem to take for granted. Things like hospital visitation rights, inheritance, tax benefits, not being forced to testify against each other, and a host of other things.  If it seems like same sex couples are "getting in the face" of society, it's only because they have been denied the right to marry who they love for so long. Give it time; when it becomes more accepted as a normal thing people can legally do, then you probably won't hear about it any more than you do with heterosexual marriage.


It seems to me when it come to  gay man the issue is autonomy which  make me wonder why get married?
Another rough one, but I read this as: "It seems to me that the reason someone is gay is because they want autonomy..."
Being homosexual only means that the person finds people of the same sex sexually attractive. That's it. It says nothing about how much or how little someone cares about autonomy.

will the follow the same rules of fidelity ion marriage?
I read this as: "Will they follow the same rules of fidelity in marriage?"
Yes. Yes they absolutely will.   And the reason I can say this so confidently is because how married couples handle fidelity varies widely.  For example, there are people in closed or open relationships, monogamous or polyamorous relationships, are into BDSM or vanilla sex or are non-sexual. And people can fit in any of these categories regardless of their sexual orientation.  The thing is, the law doesn't (and shouldn't) dictate how people wish to handle their sex lives.

Offline Aloneness

  • Hero Member
  • Species: Hella Gay Wolf
  • Великий ведра огонь!
  • *****
  • Female
  • Posts: 861
    • DeviantArt
Re: Gay Marriage now legal in all 50 states
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2015, 09:19:37 am »
Quote
Disclaimer:When replying to conflicting view points the use of you or your is directly souly at the idea and not the person upholding the idea, I attempt to treat the situation as if I was speaking to a non existing omnipresent audience. I do this to remove any personal bias that I might have with the person posting the idea and focus on what was said only
Warning May Contain Sarcasm

AS a libertarian I cannot  deny to adults wish to make a civil contract or  even cal it marriage, like they have a right  to define marriage.  My problem is  by nature right do not  conflict  with rights of others as in the case  bakers in Portland or my church. I not sure most in LGBT  the issue is about love as it is getting into the face of the rest of society. It seems to me when it come to  gay man the issue is autonomy which  make me wonder why get married? will the follow the same rules of fidelity ion marriage?
I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding this as well so I'm going to use a similar format as Yip to try and avoid miss understandings. Except I like teal more than pink sorry Yip :P


My problem is  by nature right do not  conflict  with rights of others as in the case  bakers in Portland or my church.
I read this as: "It is my belief that by nature rights should not conflict with the rights of others, in examples bakers in Portland or my church."

First if I was getting married and a bakery said no to me I'd be like, "well fine I'll do $5,000 worth of business with someone else. Capitalism if you don't want my money I'll take it somewhere else not my problem", also churches, we have separation of church and state for a reason, and I wouldn't want to have my wedding in a church anyway. The argument as a whole is hypocritical in nature anyway, it basically says rights shouldn't conflict but I want my rights to be enforced over your rights. I'm tired I wrote this from the bottom to the top good night... *flops in bed*



"I not sure most in LGBT  the issue is about love as it is getting into the face of the rest of society.
I read this as: "I'm not sure if the issue is so much about love, as it is about getting in the face of the rest of society for members of the LGBT community."

I'm pretty sure it's about love, or more specifically it's about obtaining financial, social, and societal stabilizing govermentally recognized unions between two members of the same gender, as well as all the perks that come with it for the couple, which most heterosexual couples seem to take for granite but non the less had been denied to most gays. Also, I don't see how it's getting in the face of society more than any heterosexual marriage, what are gays going to demand the use of rainbow ink when printing there marriage notice in our strictly black and white news papers... such a tragicomedy to behold... in 256 color. Pretty much what Yip said.

Also according to the 2015 Pew Research Poll "Today, a majority of Americans (57%) support same-sex marriage, compared with 39% who oppose it." Allowing gay marriage is what society wants as a whole



It seems to me when it come to  gay man the issue is autonomy which  make me wonder why get married?
I read this as: "It seems to me that when it comes to a gay man the issue is autonomy, so why get married if gay couples can't reproduce"

First lets look at the sexual aspect of all this, sorry kitties but this might be a bit mature. Sex is not the end all be all of relationships, not everyone wants kids, the world is over populated as it is, adoption is an option because I'm sure a kid in an orphanage would love to have a home and family of his own which a straight couple didn't obviously care enough to provide, even when not talking about gays what about people who can't reproduce because their autonomy doesn't work at all should they not be allowed to marry as well even if they are straight.

Second lets explain what being gay means, and this also might be a little mature kitties. A gay couple have the exact same feelings that a straight couple have for one another, the only difference is they're both the same gender. I see no issues with this at all, unless your implying that your definition of "attraction" or "feelings" is emotionless and strictly about applying male bits to female bits to make the babies, the end. Tried to make that as PG as possible.



will the follow the same rules of fidelity ion marriage?
I read this as: "Will they follow the same rules of fidelity in marriage?"

Yes, but I'm not going to say they're any better or worse at it than your avg straight couple. However I will say this, it may take guts to finally build up enough courage to ask the person you love to marry you, but if your gay then it takes guts of steel because not are you having to build up that same courage to ask the person you love if they'll marry you, but your also doing it despite knowing how much gays are still persecuted against even in light of recent events. I live in the south, the bible belt to be exact, and apparently in my state you can still be fired for just being gay, so if someone of the same gender is going to risk financial security and various other forums of discrimination just to be in a legally recognized marriage, then I think I might take there proposal that much more seriously.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 09:41:22 am by Aloneness »
Ren's Translation Note:
Konnichiwa = Hello, Nani = What?, Великий ведра огонь! = Great Buckets of Fire!

Avi by Haru