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Author Topic: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??  (Read 6046 times)

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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2017, 11:19:28 am »
Yeah, places in which Trump has a lot of business interests don't have a ban. All other Muslim countries do. Funny that, isn't it?
funny thing is that the countries banned Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Libya are all countries iv been hearing random terrorist stuff from... UNE, Malaysia, and what ever the other places i havent heard much about.. really seems as if its only "terrorist" countries that are banned not due to business interest. (or maybe its business interest and all the terrorist countries are the ones who dont want to do business)

-----Again, what happened to your mother is irrelevant to the fact that the wall is xenophobic. He also worded what he said very specifically, and if he meant to say that criminals were coming in from Mexico he would have worded it differently. He used very specific language in order to incite fear and hatred of another nation's people, dude. He's building his wall despite all evidence contrary to his insistence of its necessity.
in case you havent noticed elections are all about rhetoric/exaggerations... the whole "mexico is sending over their criminals" thing is a very illogical though and i doubt anyone would believe what is said there if taken literally, thats why i believe what he really meant was many criminals are coming from mexico (and again come into america with permission, or over staying your visa makes you a criminal so there are many criminals coming from mexico) also again a wall is not xenophobic it's there for protection...
-----Of all the times you've seemed to discuss your hardships, you've shifted the blame onto others -- illegals, Mexicans, people working in border security, blacks -- whereas whenever it's someone else who is experiencing difficulties, you've shifted the blame back onto them.
You've tried to paint refugees as the bad guys when their little isolated townships and even their cities are overrun by religious zealots, and the populace massacred and raped and enslaved, which is ridiculous and offensive on a level that I find hard to describe, to be honest. It shows a tremendous lack of compassion for people who have experienced things that all things willing you will never have to experience in your lifetime.

as for blaming others it is reasonable. iv gone through alot, and had many issues but was it at anyone's expense? no it was not./// illegal immigrants come into the US illegally and take advantage of our welfare which then leads to law makers creating more strict laws/// the border officer who denied keitsu from entering the US created falsified documents which might have been the reason for his ESTA being taken away /// the African Americans iv seen make a mess of cities, take advantage of welfare, and in some cases harm others.
i "paint" refugees as the "bad guys" because it doesnt seem like they tried hard enough to prevent this stuff from happening, they skip the line to get  into countries that other people spend years trying to get into, they start taking our tax dollars, and a majority of them dont seem to be productive in our societies at all (taking France, Germany, Sweden, etc as examples)
well i dont really see any lack of compassion in me. it bothers me deeply that people go through this stuff, but it also bothers me that they let this stuff happen to them without fighting back, and then they just run off placing their burden on others. i would want to help out if i could but i need all the money i can get, and i just dont see any chance of improvement in their lives. from my observations with again what is going on in Europe, they are just not working hard enough/doing things correctly and they have been in Europe for several months now. hell if i was actually able to help out lots of people and see them get back on their feet maybe i wouldn't be so depressed.. trust me the issues that people need to deal with bother me alot, but many things are not fixable unless the individual puts their own effort into it, there are other people who need help, and then the one issue where atm i am one of those people who needs help so i'd rather not be forced to help others (i am however barely getting any help, yet i am slowly working towards being able to help my self)
-----I know a man who came over here from Iraq, and he is one of the most softly spoken, gentle people I have ever known in my life. I used to meet up with him once a week at a local gathering because we shared a common interest and he would talk to me about what he used to do for a living in his homeland -- he was an aerospace engineer -- and, once or twice, of the terrible things he saw, and you could just tell by the way he talked that it had impacted him in such a profound way that even the extremely vague, sanitised stories he used to tell me shook him somewhere very deep inside his person whenever he told me them. To even insinuate that he, by some bizarre logic, may be to blame for the awful things that befell him and that he had to flee from is incredibly insensitive and offensive.
ya you see the difference here is that he is/was an aerospace engineer... he actually provided a valuable service to his country while he could. hell i know someone from iran who was very friendly, and i know a bunch of my dad's friends who come from Lebanon/possibly Jordan and Syria. the difference here is that these people were wealthy and actually provided a service in that other country before things turned bad. they also came here legally having to wait in line like everyone else, no one's tax dollars is going towards them, and they picked up their lives once they got here instead of sitting around in camps doing nothing or destroying stuff (in reference to the news iv been hearing in France, Germany, Sweden, etc.) maybe if these people we know actually got some help from others the countries wouldn't have collapsed?

the main things here is that they either had the money to take care of them selves, or they waited in line to get here. many of the refugees that are coming in haven't done either.
-----That's not a matter of political correctness, but a matter of understanding and patience and respect for other people who have been through unimaginable horror.
"unimaginable horror" ya... war happens, suffering happens, death happens..... it isnt unimaginable and its something that we need to be strong about, if you cant handle it and want to hide behind others that is up to who ever "guards" you. do not demand that you be taken care of, if you are lucky enough to be taken care of help out in any way you can, be grateful, and do not cause any issues.
if i lost my partner and my dog ill likely feel worse than many of those refugees and just lose all will to live, but the thing here is that i will not demand that other help me, i will not cause issues for other people, and ill be grateful for any help i receive instead of expecting more.
also if you are a refugee, or in a undesirable situation, DO NOT have children. hell iv seen many pictures of refugee children who are likely not even 10. stop having children if you cant take care of them, or provide them a good life...
-----Likewise, you blame blacks for their own behavior despite not being willing to understand the reasons behind their circumstance, no matter whether they might have grown up in extreme poverty, in communities where they cannot trust the police, where institutionalized racism has dragged them down into a swamp so deep that there's no way of getting out by themselves without the help and support of others that they never, ever get. And then you sit behind your computer, safe in the comfort of your home where you don't have to worry about whether your brother or sister or mother might not come home because the neighborhood is just that bad, and tell them to get over it.
like i said before no matter what happens you have no right to harm another human, demand that you be helped, etc...
as for not being able to trust the police, iv got some tips....
-wear proper clothing.. sagging pants usually makes many people feel uncomfortable and attracts attention. cant afford a belt? use a piece of string/plastic bags.
-do not get drunk or high out in public
-do not throw trash on the ground
-do not be running around the city all the time, if you are wearing a suit thats fine, if you are wearing cheep clothing that is going to grab attention.
-talk in a reasonable volume, and for once just stop swearing..
-when a cop says put your hands up, put your hands up... (in nearly every single video iv seen of a cop shooting an African American when the cop said put your hands up the person densest listen)
-when a cop says stop resisting, stop resisting
-do not reach for the cop's gun (seen on video several times)
^^ this will mostly solve the police problem-there will likely still be some racist cops but whats better being in jail for a bit, or being shot/killed?

ya the thing is that iv got many things going against me to, yet am i behaving in any way that is harming/disturbing anyone else? no i am not. The reason im safe is because i dont make stupid decisions. if i were to go out acting/dressed like what i just described i'd expect to be arrested/shot. Also i dont have to worry about my family not coming home because i know they will not try anything stupid, and that they will make good decisions. if my family behaved the same way the majority of they do then i would be concerned for their safety.

but once again since when does being in a bad situation justify me to harm/disturb other people or the environment?
-----Is a woman who goes back to her abusive boyfriend after he beats her senseless to blame for being beaten? Are the victims of, say, the Armenian genocide to blame for their extermination for not rising up against the systematic oppression and violence of the Ottoman Empire? Is a pedestrian who gets hit by a drunk driver that runs a red light to blame for not checking the road one more time before crossing?
If they are not, what's the difference between those and the above things I've objected to?

if someone has an abusive "partner" and they go back to them and get beaten again they have partial blame/are the part of the cause of that happening. i'd expect for the "partner" to pay/work for the all medical costs if needed
I dont know much about the Armenian genocide so i cant make any judgement here (we only covered jewish and muslim genocides in school)
As for the pedestrian yes they do take some blame for not checking again. but this is a innocent enough mistake that i wouldnt really judge that much. i'd expect the drunk driver to pay/work for all medical costs.
now depending on the exact situation, and if the person's personality is if i'd want to help them out at all (in the car incident they would have my full support in most situations)
-----I'm just uphappy that you tried to bring my country into this.
and im just unhappy that people bring my country into this mess. whether we like it or not both our countries are involved. i didn't bring Australia into it, who ever is letting the refugees into Australia brought Australia into it. hell australia might be my home in several months (through legal visas/immigration) so im upset about Australia being involved too.
I specifically mention able bodied men because that is typically what the right wing media likes to paint the majority of the Syrian refugees as. Not out of ignorance.
well in that section if what you say is true they are incorrect. but it doesnt matter men or women they can both fight for whats right (though considering that women usually have barely any rights in those countries, i'd mostly blame the men)
-----I'm not sure why you see it fit to make demands of them, in that case.
ok then im just going to spill a bunch of oil out in the middle of the ocean on accident.... im not going to clean it up though. see the problem here? someone needs to clean up the mess, and it should be who ever let the mess happened, or caused it, not everyone should have to fix it. though because any threat is a threat to us all i'd support clearing that "oil spill" (in other words if i had money i'd "donate" it to them to take back their country by force)

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2017, 12:39:12 pm »
Five states calling Trumps religious ban unconstitutional. Both reps and dems also calling it unconstitutional.
^ But will the Dems, Repubs, and the Supreme Court overturn it? Probably not.  :P They'll "complain" about it, but probably won't lift a finger to counter it, especially the Repubs.

Justus department oversteps bounds but still making a stance against this mandate.
^ Yay for them standing up to Trump!  :D

Trump's calling it just the same as Obama's.
No, it's not the same as Obama's. Trump's plan is much more vile and worse.  >:(

Trump blames the problem on democrats.
Naturally. What else is new? Trump will continue to blame the Dems for everything while the Repubs get nothing.  :P

 Again he's lying to try to get his way.
He'll always lie. It's in his blood. He was probably "born and raised" to lie.  :P

Trump continues to call the American media the 'opposition party".


Trump has appointed a single person to be a security advisor. Then tells two branches of government they are not welcome at security meetings.
This is bad. Very, very bad.  :o  >:(


179 days to impeachment.

For the first time in history an American president has caused protests around the world.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2017, 12:41:46 pm »
Yeah, places in which Trump has a lot of business interests don't have a ban. All other Muslim countries do. Funny that, isn't it?

And I also find it curious that Afghanistan wasn't put on that list because of ties to Al-Queda terrorists.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2017, 12:57:04 pm »
Trump went out of his way trying to hide the fact his refugee ban is about Muslims.
He apparently is wanting to keep his promise to ban them even if he has to do it
through the back door.

His fireing of the acting atterney general just shows he is a man who hates to
loose. The senate is likely to approve his pick for a racist atterney general in a
few days at best. Still he had to fire her even though she had certain powers
that could be needed by the foreign service at any time. Trump either didn't know
or care about this possible problem he caused.

Bannon is likely the driving force pushing Trump to the far right. In the past he was
more to the left than the right. Trump isn't one to be pushed around, but he respects
Bannon, and is likely to follow his policy ideas.

As written the ban harms our military and state department. Who is going to 
help us when they can't believe anything our president says. It also helps the
terrorists gain more support. Carry on Trump, perhaps you will go down
as the most hated president in history.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2017, 03:12:43 pm »
I think this article proves who's really calling the shots at the White House. It sure as hell ain't Donald Trump. Trump has become nothing but a mouthpiece and a political puppet for Steve Bannon and his far right rhetoric and policies. So maybe it's not Trump we should all be worried about, but rather Steve Bannon instead.  :o  :o  :o  :goldpissed: :goldpissed: :goldpissed:
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2017, 10:42:08 pm »
The president of the EU (European Union) declare Trump "dangerous" and " a threat ".
At this time Trump is facing 41 lawsuits.

178 days to impeachment.
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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2017, 11:37:11 am »
I imagine Trump is getting enough money from foreign leaders to pay his
costs of those law suits. Then again he will probably let the tax payer pay
instead.

After all if the constitution gets in the way he just makes an excuse
saying "The people elected me to do this. " the GOP nods and he
carries on.

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Offline Dusty

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #82 on: February 02, 2017, 06:16:10 am »
in case you havent noticed elections are all about rhetoric/exaggerations... the whole "mexico is sending over their criminals" thing is a very illogical though and i doubt anyone would believe what is said there if taken literally, thats why i believe what he really meant was many criminals are coming from mexico (and again come into america with permission, or over staying your visa makes you a criminal so there are many criminals coming from mexico) also again a wall is not xenophobic it's there for protection...

Elections are actually about selecting a party or person to lead your community.

And illegal immigration from Mexico, as I said before, is down. Their economy is burgeoning. The wall will not accomplish anything significant as far as stemming the tide of illegal immigrants coming into your country. The reasoning behind it was blatantly fake and it preyed entirely on a portion of your country's xenophobic tendencies -- as evidenced by his proclamation that the 'necessity' of the wall would be blamed squarely upon the Mexicans by insisting they foot the bill!

Also,

Quote
the whole "mexico is sending over their criminals" thing is a very illogical though

Trump isn't a logical person. He is a narcissistic idiot. He doesn't bother to run his ideas past other people. Have you seen his Twitter feed? Why would you assume he'd do or say sensible things?

Quote
as for blaming others it is reasonable. iv gone through alot, and had many issues but was it at anyone's expense? no it was not./// illegal immigrants come into the US illegally and take advantage of our welfare which then leads to law makers creating more strict laws/// the border officer who denied keitsu from entering the US created falsified documents which might have been the reason for his ESTA being taken away /// the African Americans iv seen make a mess of cities, take advantage of welfare, and in some cases harm others.

That immigrants making life hard for you thing seems extremely tenuous to me. You are blaming some nebulous group of people for the relatively recent tightening of immigration laws that are complex and have many different influencing factors, including the 9/11 attacks. You wouldn't remember all of that as it happened but I do. And that complaint about African Americans, the way it's currently worded, comes across as pretty racist.

Quote
i "paint" refugees as the "bad guys" because it doesnt seem like they tried hard enough to prevent this stuff from happening, they skip the line to get  into countries that other people spend years trying to get into, they start taking our tax dollars, and a majority of them dont seem to be productive in our societies at all (taking France, Germany, Sweden, etc as examples)

That's serious victim blaming, dude. The whole thing about them not preventing murderous brigades of fundamentalist maniacs rolling into their towns to rape, pillage and murder the inhabitants is ridiculously inhumane and shows a serious lack of compassion for other human beings. I don't know how to emphasise this any more than that. What do you want those communities, some of them so isolated that they don't even know what's going on in the world around them, to do? Religious extremism isn't always an outward trait that's easily identifiable if a person is absolutely intent on not making it so.

Also, why are you talking about your tax dollars? You've already said you don't pay any.

Quote
well i dont really see any lack of compassion in me. it bothers me deeply that people go through this stuff, but it also bothers me that they let this stuff happen to them without fighting back, and then they just run off placing their burden on others.

That's the definition of lacking compassion. You can't claim to be compassionate whilst treating these people like they're selfish and just a burden foisted upon others.

Quote
ya you see the difference here is that he is/was an aerospace engineer... he actually provided a valuable service to his country while he could. hell i know someone from iran who was very friendly, and i know a bunch of my dad's friends who come from Lebanon/possibly Jordan and Syria. the difference here is that these people were wealthy and actually provided a service in that other country before things turned bad. they also came here legally having to wait in line like everyone else, no one's tax dollars is going towards them, and they picked up their lives once they got here instead of sitting around in camps doing nothing or destroying stuff (in reference to the news iv been hearing in France, Germany, Sweden, etc.) maybe if these people we know actually got some help from others the countries wouldn't have collapsed? the main things here is that they either had the money to take care of them selves, or they waited in line to get here. many of the refugees that are coming in haven't done either.

So only the rich and privileged are worth offering help, and not just the normal, regular people who just wanted to live their lives in their home country before they were forcibly displaced by a hostile force?

Quote
"unimaginable horror" ya... war happens, suffering happens, death happens..... it isnt unimaginable and its something that we need to be strong about, if you cant handle it and want to hide behind others that is up to who ever "guards" you. do not demand that you be taken care of, if you are lucky enough to be taken care of help out in any way you can, be grateful, and do not cause any issues.

That's not very compassionate.

Quote
if i lost my partner and my dog ill likely feel worse than many of those refugees and just lose all will to live, but the thing here is that i will not demand that other help me, i will not cause issues for other people, and ill be grateful for any help i receive instead of expecting more.

Dude.

Quote
also if you are a refugee, or in a undesirable situation, DO NOT have children. hell iv seen many pictures of refugee children who are likely not even 10. stop having children if you cant take care of them, or provide them a good life...

But you don't know anything about these people. They might have been perfectly content and maybe not even been refugees when they had their children ten years ago and hadn't planned at all to move over to your country, for all you know.

Quote
like i said before no matter what happens you have no right to harm another human, demand that you be helped, etc...
as for not being able to trust the police, iv got some tips....
-wear proper clothing.. sagging pants usually makes many people feel uncomfortable and attracts attention. cant afford a belt? use a piece of string/plastic bags.
-do not get drunk or high out in public
-do not throw trash on the ground
-do not be running around the city all the time, if you are wearing a suit thats fine, if you are wearing cheep clothing that is going to grab attention.
-talk in a reasonable volume, and for once just stop swearing..
-when a cop says put your hands up, put your hands up... (in nearly every single video iv seen of a cop shooting an African American when the cop said put your hands up the person densest listen)
-when a cop says stop resisting, stop resisting
-do not reach for the cop's gun (seen on video several times)
^^ this will mostly solve the police problem-there will likely still be some racist cops but whats better being in jail for a bit, or being shot/killed?

Sagging pants don't make me uncomfortable. And there's numerous studies that show that racial profiling by the police is a thing. If law enforcement is out to get them, how will the community improve? Distrust doesn't build relationships, and neither does racism.

Quote
ya the thing is that iv got many things going against me to, yet am i behaving in any way that is harming/disturbing anyone else? no i am not. The reason im safe is because i dont make stupid decisions. if i were to go out acting/dressed like what i just described i'd expect to be arrested/shot. Also i dont have to worry about my family not coming home because i know they will not try anything stupid, and that they will make good decisions. if my family behaved the same way the majority of they do then i would be concerned for their safety.

Why does dressing a certain way inevitably get someone shot? Isn't that stereotyping? And are you saying that every black guy who gets shot on the street made a dumb decision, and it couldn't have been a matter of wrong place, wrong time, or maybe someone was out to get them?

Quote
if someone has an abusive "partner" and they go back to them and get beaten again they have partial blame/are the part of the cause of that happening. i'd expect for the "partner" to pay/work for the all medical costs if needed

Oh my god no, dude. I threw you this as a bone to encourage you to think about your reasoning, not to double down on it! How is the victim to blame if it's entirely the choice of the perpetrator to engage in their violent, abusive behaviour? And there's also the fact that people who are in an abusive relationship take about six times to successfully escape because it's incredibly scary for them. They're afraid of retribution if they come out and tell the police, or leave their partner, or talk to family about what's happening to them -- or even people judging them and saying it was their fault!

Quote
I dont know much about the Armenian genocide so i cant make any judgement here (we only covered jewish and muslim genocides in school)

I'm not gonna ask you about those, I think.

Quote
As for the pedestrian yes they do take some blame for not checking again. but this is a innocent enough mistake that i wouldnt really judge that much. i'd expect the drunk driver to pay/work for all medical costs.
now depending on the exact situation, and if the person's personality is if i'd want to help them out at all (in the car incident they would have my full support in most situations)

Just... no, dude.

Quote
well in that section if what you say is true they are incorrect. but it doesnt matter men or women they can both fight for whats right (though considering that women usually have barely any rights in those countries, i'd mostly blame the men)

That's just more victim blaming.

Quote
ok then im just going to spill a bunch of oil out in the middle of the ocean on accident.... im not going to clean it up though. see the problem here? someone needs to clean up the mess, and it should be who ever let the mess happened, or caused it, not everyone should have to fix it. though because any threat is a threat to us all i'd support clearing that "oil spill" (in other words if i had money i'd "donate" it to them to take back their country by force)

Are you comparing refugees who are fleeing persecution to some hypothetical oil company that spilled thousands of gallons of oil into the ocean? Wow.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 06:32:02 am by Dusty »

Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2017, 11:56:26 am »
Elections are actually about selecting a party or person to lead your community.
this is what they should be but that is not what they are. everyone uses rhetoric in US elections, not sure about australian elections but over here its nothing but rhetoric and talk. 
And illegal immigration from Mexico, as I said before, is down. Their economy is burgeoning. The wall will not accomplish anything significant as far as stemming the tide of illegal immigrants coming into your country. The reasoning behind it was blatantly fake and it preyed entirely on a portion of your country's xenophobic tendencies -- as evidenced by his proclamation that the 'necessity' of the wall would be blamed squarely upon the Mexicans by insisting they foot the bill!
once again i dont agree too much on the wall, but i still dont see much xenophobia about it. it might not be significant but the wall will likely help quite a bit (though the real issue is that we need to start deporting the people who overstay visas.
Trump isn't a logical person. He is a narcissistic idiot. He doesn't bother to run his ideas past other people. Have you seen his Twitter feed? Why would you assume he'd do or say sensible things?
iv seen his twitter and imo its not that bad, seems like he just likes to talk. imo i'd say that some "feminist" or "liberal" twitter pages iv seen had worse stuff than trump. 
That immigrants making life hard for you thing seems extremely tenuous to me. You are blaming some nebulous group of people for the relatively recent tightening of immigration laws that are complex and have many different influencing factors, including the 9/11 attacks. You wouldn't remember all of that as it happened but I do. And that complaint about African Americans, the way it's currently worded, comes across as pretty racist.
well its correct to a certain extent. yes the 9/11 attacks caused many issues but if people would just give the gov time, and help the gov out then the immigration laws wouldnt be more strict. hell instead of demanding that you be let into the US show that you will actually be useful here, and not a burden.  also call what i say racist but i really dont care what you say because personally i have nothing against individuals of different skin color, race, or species. i just use that information to make a quick guess on how someone might behave, or if they are a threat.
That's serious victim blaming, dude. The whole thing about them not preventing murderous brigades of fundamentalist maniacs rolling into their towns to rape, pillage and murder the inhabitants is ridiculously inhumane and shows a serious lack of compassion for other human beings. I don't know how to emphasize this any more than that. What do you want those communities, some of them so isolated that they don't even know what's going on in the world around them, to do? Religious extremism isn't always an outward trait that's easily identifiable if a person is absolutely intent on not making it so.
well first thing would be to raise your children to not believe in that stuff (i am sure that there are many refugees that have family member in those groups, though this doesnt apply to all) another thing is to stay alert to your surroundings which isnt too difficult (unless they are lacking food/water but if they are lacking food/water thats a bad place to have settled) if you see a bunch of people with guns heading towards your town then maybe that isnt a good sign? as for fighting back there are guns all over the place over there, hell i read a news article awhile back that some people uncovered boxes filled with STG 44s (its old but those were nice rifles) and again if you dont have supplies to fight im pretty sure that turkey would be happy to have more soldiers. also there are some early signs on if someone is a threat. do they talk about you going to hell all the time? possible threat. do they talk about god/Allah like they/their teachings are more important than a person? possible threat. do they talk about infidels? this is a stereotype but in many isis videos i hear them say that alot so if you hear anyone even mention that word then its a possible threat. do they sacrifice animals? possible threat. there are likely more ways to find one but i dont live there so i cant point them out. these are just guesses so im not too sure how they would work so if they dont work then the getting help from turkey idea might be the best.
Also, why are you talking about your tax dollars? You've already said you don't pay any.
once i start working im going to be paying tax. not paying tax right now, but i will be later and it takes time to change laws so i'd rather push for this before i need to start paying. also i'm tired of having other people who dont want to give their money waste their money on this stuff.
That's the definition of lacking compassion. You can't claim to be compassionate whilst treating these people like they're selfish and just a burden foisted upon others.
if their suffering bothers/concerns you thats the definition of compassion. "sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others:" though some/many of us got our own survival/lives to worry about. also getting helped and not offering any help in turn likely means you are a burden... (again what is going on in Europe is a good example of a burden)
So only the rich and privileged are worth offering help, and not just the normal, regular people who just wanted to live their lives in their home country before they were forcibly displaced by a hostile force?
we arent offering the rich/"privileged" help, we are just letting them in our country since they can take care of themselves, and they can also help us in the process. they might get their visa processed a little faster because they are in danger, but in the end they are no burden. and if the regular people worked with the rich to improve things then maybe the countries wouldnt have "fallen." hell im pretty sure my dad's friends would have loved to stay in their country because they lost alot of money coming to the US. it takes alot of people working together to keep a society together, but clearly they didnt work together good enough. as for the reason not to help the normal people thats because they will be draining our resources, hell we got tons of homeless/issues in our country taking in more people who have a sketchy background/no records is a horrible idea. last thing we need is more jobless/homeless people in this country that we have to take care of.
That's not very compassionate.
again the way i feel falls in line with the definition of compassionate. i dont like the fact either but war, suffering, and death do happen and we need to be more resilient to it. the next thing is just telling people to be grateful for the help they receive if they aren't strong about it which is something that i havent really seen (again Europe as an example) the only thing im "demanding" here is that they be a decent individual, which i have the right to refuse helping if they arent even grateful for it. weakness to these things is kinda a bad thing since your chances of survival are lowered by it, but its not something that i view as a major issue, its not being grateful, or payingback/helping that is the problem.
Dude.
all im saying here is that ill not bother anyone, and be a decent human, so i dont see why you are surprised/weirded out by it (or at least thats what i felt your reply was expressing)
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also if you are a refugee, or in a undesirable situation, DO NOT have children. hell iv seen many pictures of refugee children who are likely not even 10. stop having children if you cant take care of them, or provide them a good life...
But you don't know anything about these people. They might have been perfectly content and maybe not even been refugees when they had their children ten years ago and hadn't planned at all to move over to your country, for all you know.
when i said not even 10 i mean age<10 hell iv seen babies, toddlers, etc. if you hear bombs, and gunfire in the distance maybe then is not the best time to have a child. and from personal experience explosives can be heard from a very long/far distance so you have tons of time to know things arent going well.
Sagging pants don't make me uncomfortable. And there's numerous studies that show that racial profiling by the police is a thing. If law enforcement is out to get them, how will the community improve? Distrust doesn't build relationships, and neither does racism.
okay then.. but i speak for many people i know that sagging pants makes them feel uncomfortable (hell i feel i'd be more comfortable seeing someone running around in their boxers, walking around with your pants below your hips just doesnt feel right) also from my experience most people iv seen with sagging pants are either stoners (not an issue but you can easily tell that by how calm they are) or they are trouble makers. yes racial profiling is a thing, it allows for quicker judgements. while it is a bad thing and people should be more careful about it, its likely saved many cops from harm. and the law enforcement isnt "out to get them"
also btw you completely ignored the littering, drug/alcohol use, improper language etc. all of those things are illegal (last one falling under public disturbance) stop doing these things and the cops will have less reasons to stop you. you also forgot the last part on how to deal with police... put your hands up and its likely more cops will be less wary of people like you/in the same area.
its only after that that trust can be built. many people might get arrested for bad reasons due to the few racist cops out there, but if you clean up your act, and stop doing illegal things these racist copes have less excuses to hide behind.
Why does dressing a certain way inevitably get someone shot? Isn't that stereotyping? And are you saying that every black guy who gets shot on the street made a dumb decision, and it couldn't have been a matter of wrong place, wrong time, or maybe someone was out to get them?
again its not the way they dress its just that the way they dress bring more attention to them. yes it is stereotyping, but thats because people who dress like that have caused lots of trouble/dont listen.
from most of the body cams/videos iv seen of black people getting shot yes they made very Very stupid decisions (with the exception of that one guy who got shot in his car, with the girl videotaping it. imo that was a misunderstanding that was caused by the officer not being trained enough, and by the amount of times African Americans have dealt with cops) in the case that there are abusive cops stick together with friends, live stream the stuff, and do not end up getting shot (which involves not resisting if the cop is trying to arrest you) the more lives that are taken the more messy and unorganized things get, and the harder it is to point out which cops are abusive since there is no victim to talk. let the cops arrest you, deal with the time if necessary then work on ways to prove that you did nothing wrong (private security cameras maybe) there are no doubt actual racist cops out there who do bad stuff and they are enemies to us all, but we cant do anything about it if more innocent cops are killing out of fear that they know police as a whole are hated.
Oh my god no, dude. I threw you this as a bone to encourage you to think about your reasoning, not to double down on it! How is the victim to blame if it's entirely the choice of the perpetrator to engage in their violent, abusive behaviour? And there's also the fact that people who are in an abusive relationship take about six times to successfully escape because it's incredibly scary for them. They're afraid of retribution if they come out and tell the police, or leave their partner, or talk to family about what's happening to them -- or even people judging them and saying it was their fault!
That's why I said partial blame... they went back to their partner knowing there is a high chance that they might be abused again and they took that risk. yes i know they can be scared, and me loving my partner unconditionally i know that its very difficult to stay away from someone you love even if they caused you lots of pain. but the thing is if you go back to an area you know has a high chance of harming you again then you are at partial fault.

does it mean you should be punished? no, does it mean people should look down on you? no... all im saying is that you do have blame on your self but all punishments and judgements should be placed on the abuser. if you demand that you be helped, and they you be treated special because you are abused thats where i draw the line. if i see someone in need of help or asking for help, ill help. if i see someone demanding that/trying to shame me till i give them money, or if i give them money and they are ungrateful then thats where i completely refuse to help unless they are still in danger of that partner they are with, but if that partner is behind bars and you treat me like that then get lost.
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"I dont know much about the Armenian genocide so i cant make any judgement here (we only covered jewish and muslim genocides in school)"
I'm not gonna ask you about those, I think.
was just pointing out that my school has gaps in their "education" and exclude information possibly on purpose (i hear all the time that many people try to cover up the armenian genocide so i feel the school might be trying to do that indirectly by not teaching it) and surprisingly/most likely not what you expected, i actually feel that all that stuff was wrong (the german people should have never given up their guns and fallen for those lies though, and with the crusades well... that was an invasion from a technologically superior force so i feel they have no fault for that genocide (completely siding with the Muslims here with my current knowledge on the crusades))
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As for the pedestrian yes they do take some blame for not checking again. but this is a innocent enough mistake that i wouldnt really judge that much. i'd expect the drunk driver to pay/work for all medical costs.
now depending on the exact situation, and if the person's personality is if i'd want to help them out at all (in the car incident they would have my full support in most situations)
Just... no, dude.
once again the person who stepped out shouldn't be punished, or looked down upon it's a simple understandable mistake. the driver takes partially full responsibility and i feel that probation/rehab/paying for medical fees is the furthest the "punishment" should go since both are kinda victims in this situation.

if you do something that leads to something else then you are part of the reason that happened. if you didnt walk it would have never happened. it's a very simple thing to understand and i dont really know any simpler way to explain it.

(it might be due to you possibly thinking that the word "blame/blaming" is a super negative thing when in reality all it means is that they take some responsibility/take part in why something happened. i am no way looking down on victims for what happened to them, but if they start to negatively effect me then thats where they are doing something wrong)
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well in that section if what you say is true they are incorrect. but it doesnt matter men or women they can both fight for whats right (though considering that women usually have barely any rights in those countries, i'd mostly blame the men)
That's just more victim blaming.
the victims here are the women, children, and those who arent working. the men at this time had complete control of the country (excluding the influence from the US, and Russia but in numbers they could have fought that off without violence). they could have worked together, and kept their country strong but instead they just couldnt work together. "luckily" (though not really lucky, since well.. no rights plus oppression from the men) women had no control over this so they get pretty much no blame.
Are you comparing refugees who are fleeing persecution to some hypothetical oil company that spilled thousands of gallons of oil into the ocean? Wow.
well there are issues there that they let happen by not working together (ignoring a leaking pipe) which lead to their government falling, weakness, and being invaded due to weakness (pipes giving away spilling oil)

they arent completely to blame for this but they should have worked alot harder to hold onto their land, and shouldnt be rushing over here. though the people who pushed for the wars in the middle east should be the ones paying extra to fix this mess.
This is what they should have done:
Spoiler: show
pretty much my whole idea is that they should have worked together to form armed fighting forces from normal civilians to protect them selves, and then work on rules/laws to restore order. (and also expose the US's influence in their country) its not that difficult if you are able to work with other people, and if your views didnt promote oppression/hate (allow women to work on their own and have equal protection under the law, allows gays/lesbians to be around unharmed, ignore race though they already do a great job at this since race stereotypes dont reach out there) after that you could form a stable society, and hell all ISIS got is a few coldwar tanks, and artillery pieces so with correct relations with another country you could get them taken out easily. though one thing you have got to have is a wall/perimeter, last thing you want is some ISIS personnel sneaking into your city/town causing issues.


though since that ^^^^ isnt really an option anymore since there is no where safe there they will need assistance from other countries. my best idea would be to create the "safezones" that trump talked about several months back, though to make sure they are cared for and not abused we should throw some UN personnel out there. while keeping them safe help them reform a proper government and teach them how to use it, and give the reasonable ones some basic weaponry, and training to help fight off ISIS.
i am mostly fine with my taxdollars going towards ammo/bombs to wipe out ISIS, and safezones in their countries i just dont want them in my country skipping line into the US, taking up room, taking up jobs for the ones that actually start working (im kinda mixed feelings about this one though), pushing for sharia law, etc.

Pretty much everything im saying in reference to refugees is that unless they are able to provide a rare service (engineers, doctors, PhDs), or open up more jobs (iv seen many middle eastern restaurants/stores and im completely fine with them being here) i dont want them in "my" country to be taking up space, or taking up jobs. i also expect them to be fixing their own country instead since they didnt hold out strong enough but since the US messed with them i feel that some people here need to provide support (like hillary if what i hear is true, and hell she has tons of money, likely enough for many guns/rockets) i am fine with my tax dollars going towards helping them clean up their country because that mess is a threat to us all, but i am not fine with my tax dollars going towards giving them a place in the US.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2017, 12:05:09 pm »
If I had lost a son due to a hurry up job that wasn't really neccessary I fear I
would have told Trump off when he arrived to watch my son's body unloaded
from a plane. Our leaders need to know that just because they have the
right to put our sons and daughters at risk, we don't have to tell them it's
okay. Especially if it was political.

If Trump is going to jump on someone it should be the skipper of
that navy ship that dumped over 1000 gallons of oil into a Japanese
harbor. I suppose he did it to allow the ship to unground. He should
have waited till a tanker arrived to off load the oil.

Perhaps the skipper felt the ship was at risk and dumped the oil
for that reason, but Navy ships have water tight doors to seal off
sections of the ship. I think it's likely the skipper over reacted in
a darned if you do and darned if you don't situation.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2017, 09:47:39 pm »
Trump continues to alienate allies. Now that he has a religious ban in place he is further blurring the line between church and state. His latest proclamation allows churches and christian organizations to promote political candidates.

177 days before impeachment.
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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2017, 08:09:27 am »
Now that he has a religious ban in place
Incorrect. All immigration from the 7 is banned. Also, may we note that Obama picked the 7? All Trump did is pull the trigger on the 90 day, TEMPORARY ban

Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2017, 12:31:55 am »
Now that he has a religious ban in place
Incorrect. All immigration from the 7 is banned. Also, may we note that Obama picked the 7? All Trump did is pull the trigger on the 90 day, TEMPORARY ban

yep this is pretty true also... like i said it really doesnt seem like its a muslim ban

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2017, 11:24:01 am »
It may not directly state it's to ban Muslims, but how come he is letting
Christians from those countries travel here? Looks like a religious
test to me. Banning for religious beliefs is unconstitutional, but
Trump doesn't seem to care about the constitution unless he agrees
with it.

A republican federal judge stayed his travel ban by the way. Trump called
it a terrible decisian, and is pressing for an emergency appeal to over
turn the judges stay.



« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 11:26:50 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2017, 10:40:48 pm »
well its been a very long time since iv heard of Christian terrorist... hell the only thing i can think of would be that one random shooting at the church but that guy likely did that out of racism/hate for those people due to the long history the south has of being racist, but not out of religion (when ever i see "Muslim" terrorists i always hear for Allah so it does seem to be their religion motivating them.

i still disagree with refugees since of other reason. but imo the christian ones seem like less of a threat.

Offline Loc

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2017, 06:50:59 am »
A lot of anti-abortion killings and terrorism are linked to Christianity, such as the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting, which was in 2015. And that is hardly the only time PP has been shot up or outright bombed by Christians. I'm calling crap on "It's been a long time". Then you have the KKK, who have a strong Protestant background.

The Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting? Done by a Christian.. The Centennial Olympic Park bombing? Done by a Christian. A Christian who had ALREADY carried out terrorist acts before in the name of God. Want me to go on? These people ALL thought they were doing God's work. I can find more examples if you want, but I hope that you can understand the point I'm driving at here. Although I feel you will ignore it.

The simple fact is that Muslims carry out less than 10% of all terrorist attacks (source:https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005#terror_05sum). But when a Christian attacks someone, they are labelled by the media as "mentally ill" and "needing help". But a Muslim is straight up slapped as a terrorist.

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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2017, 10:42:25 am »
well the "its been a long time" thing is kinda true since i my self havent heard of that many lately (been too distracted with issues in my personal life in the past, and most of my judgements are based on things i see happening currently which just so happens to be majority islamic)

"Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting" it is still an act of terrorism, it doesnt matter who it's done by, what matters is the reason, from what the wiki says it was "politically" motivated b/c he was unable to find a job and he was going to lose his food stamps. as for the "Centennial Olympic Park bombing" plus "Colorado springs shooting" that is done by a christian but from what i read about them they hate is abortion which imo isnt so much of a religious motivated issue but more of a moral issue (i am completely atheist plus disapprove of the idea of god but even i am slightly against abortion in certain conditions) they might be saying they are doing it in the name of god since in their religious beliefs killing is wrong (which they believe people are killing babies) though i guess this is still technically a religious motivation...
(so from what i know first one wasn't religious motivated, and the 2nd/3rd ones technically are)

looked at that link you gave me and alot of them seem to be communism (not too many injuries/deaths), jewish motives (this was unexpected, and again not many injuries/deaths), then environmental (though dont see anyone injured/killed), a few random incidents with injuries/deaths (cults), then middle eastern terrorism that seems to have the most injuries/deaths. so imo the islamic ones are still worse than any of those, and imo they are all "mentally ill" people who could use help, and they are all terrorists.

dont really need you to go on since i get your point, but it is already a thought in my mind that most religions are bad, i just see more larger things from Islam which is why i have the most dislike for them (so just statistically they seem to cause the most extensive damage in terms of religion) though like i said all the ones over abortion are kinda in a gray zone to me (and i still see the highest death/injury toll from Islamic terrorism)

"Although I feel you will ignore it"- this just seems a little hostile to me.. unlike what you or whoever else might believe I'm not just some idiot who ignores facts, and tries to support/attack whatever for a random reason... hell i hold pretty much no bias towards any groups since i don't fit in where ever i go. i dont even have any negative experiences with any group so i got no reason to hate any ideas based on emotion. everything i say/suggest is based on what iv seen, and what iv heard (though this may lead to me "hating" an idea, due to how illogical, or unfair it is) im just making judgements solely on the ideas that people come up with, suggest, or use; and nothing against the actual people (which from the evidence provided to me religion, refugees, illegals, foreign aid, consumerism, etc. are all bad ideas)

the closest thing to bias i got would be towards my self, or my partner but even i have limits on those. but those give me no reason to support any of the groups i talk about.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2017, 11:59:47 am »
As long as Trump follows the constitution I won't fuss too much. This Travel
ban, and he called it a ban more than once. has been called into question
by several federal judges. Trump turns around and starts making rude
remarks about them and their discians. I suppose we can just say that's
normal for Trump. Do we really want our young people to think lit's okay
to be rude to others just because you don't agree with them? I think not.

A president is a leader, and should be looked up to as a honest upstanding
individual. Not someone who acts like a undisciplined spoiled child.

I think history has shown all religious have spawned groups who have
been involved in terrorisim. So let's not point to any we might feel
are innocent. Religions like the humans who created them are not
perfect, and are misused by bad people who hate those who look and
act different than the believers.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 12:18:18 pm by Old Rabbit »
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2017, 12:53:21 pm »
As long as Trump follows the constitution I won't fuss too much.
 This Travelban, and he called it a ban more than once.

biggest issue i see is that people are always claiming its a religion ban when from what iv heard it is a ban of several countries and not religion. even obama considered those high risk and the ones listed during obama's presidency are the ones banned.
has been called into question by several federal judges. Trump turns around and starts making rude
remarks about them and their discians. I suppose we can just say that's normal for Trump.

as for trump being rude that can be a good thing but is also a bad thing for a leader. good thing is it makes things go a little quicker, but it isnt really something we should have as a leader due to the possibility that it could just lead to a bad habit.
Do we really want our young people to think lit's okay
to be rude to others just because you don't agree with them? I think not.

as for the young well thats the parent and community's job, and iv used this same argument against the "protesters." hell trump says stuff often usually just insults, and swearing but this is just one person. now look at the protesters... constantly chanting swears, having signs saying the same thing, sometimes having inappropriate drawings on shirts/signs, chanting other stuff, etc. hell iv been seeing children chanting swears too, and im pretty sure they didnt learn this from trump. If anything all this rudeness and risk for our young is coming from the "left" not from trump or the right.

they are both bad influences but the "left" is in far more numbers/concentrations and is causing more harm than trump. when ever i see a child or teen yelling that stuff against trump, or destroying stuff it just makes me lose a little hope in our next generation and fear they they are going to grow up rude, or even worse growing up taking those masked rioters as role models. atm im just waiting for these "protests" to start appearing in my city.. first San Francisco (even a kid i know in high school is going up there) then the riots at UC Berkeley. im really surprised that they haven't popped up here yet...
A president is a leader, and should be looked up to as a honest upstanding individual.
 Not someone who acts like a undisciplined spoiled child.

and yes the president should be like that but people like that are rare to come by. trump isnt perfect but at least he's getting stuff done
I think history has shown all religious have created groups who have been involved in terrorism. So let's not point to any you might feel are innocent.
 Religions like the humans who created them are not perfect, and are misused by bad people who hate those look and act different than the believers.

from my point of view it seems as if most religions have gotten over their kill everyone phase due to religion's introduction to modern technologies/society structure. its likely due to this same reason that there are civilized Muslims out there. though these refugees do not come from civilized areas so i feel that anyone older than a child is a risk due to already growing up and developing in an area like that, only way i can think of how to help them would be trying to pick out the ones who act correctly, or have extensive therapy and other help to fix what the uncivilized society and religion did to them. the children on the other hand are helpable.

hell to me is seems like most religions have that violent, and hateful stuff in them from their holy book. though due to the demands of a modern society anything like "kill those who dont believe, kill the gays, sell your daughter, etc." is no longer believed because it just wouldn't work. there is also that advanced technology means more time thinking less time trying to survive, leading to people realizing how ridiculous having to killing someone because they fell in love of someone the same gender is, and all that other stuff.
 
pretty much what im saying is that a primitive/uncivilized society plus religion can lead to a very bad outcome, while a modern/civilized society plus religion should be mostly fine.

Offline Dusty

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #94 on: February 06, 2017, 05:23:51 am »
this is what they should be but that is not what they are. everyone uses rhetoric in US elections, not sure about australian elections but over here its nothing but rhetoric and talk. 

If that's the case, don't vote for the candidates who just use rhetoric and spew rubbish.

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once again i dont agree too much on the wall, but i still dont see much xenophobia about it. it might not be significant but the wall will likely help quite a bit (though the real issue is that we need to start deporting the people who overstay visas.

I've explained it multiple times. It seems that you might be beginning to agree with me, as you're conceding that you do seem to correctly identify that the wall is at least a little xenophobic.

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iv seen his twitter and imo its not that bad, seems like he just likes to talk. imo i'd say that some "feminist" or "liberal" twitter pages iv seen had worse stuff than trump.

No. This is a man that's supposed to be the leader of a world superpower. That's infinitely worse than some other personality ranting on Twitter. He goes about threatening the courts and badmouthing other countries, potentially causing international incidents in 140 characters or less. The bar for him is set far higher than it is for some internet feminist, and he often sinks much lower anyway.

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well first thing would be to raise your children to not believe in that stuff (i am sure that there are many refugees that have family member in those groups, though this doesnt apply to all) another thing is to stay alert to your surroundings which isnt too difficult (unless they are lacking food/water but if they are lacking food/water thats a bad place to have settled) if you see a bunch of people with guns heading towards your town then maybe that isnt a good sign? as for fighting back there are guns all over the place over there, hell i read a news article awhile back that some people uncovered boxes filled with STG 44s (its old but those were nice rifles) and again if you dont have supplies to fight im pretty sure that turkey would be happy to have more soldiers. also there are some early signs on if someone is a threat. do they talk about you going to hell all the time? possible threat. do they talk about god/Allah like they/their teachings are more important than a person? possible threat. do they talk about infidels? this is a stereotype but in many isis videos i hear them say that alot so if you hear anyone even mention that word then its a possible threat. do they sacrifice animals? possible threat. there are likely more ways to find one but i dont live there so i cant point them out. these are just guesses so im not too sure how they would work so if they dont work then the getting help from turkey idea might be the best.

It's staggering when I see people from western countries explain to people in small, isolated second- or third-world communities how they'd avert the crises these people have endured. What do you think these people do when they see heavily armed insurgents rock up at their town hall? They run. They're not trained to use guns; they're not violent; they're not fighters, nor are they soldiers. They're farmers and people who run their own little businesses within their community and make a living doing their thing. Your insistence that these people should go join some army after witnessing gross acts of mass violence doesn't make you look compassionate; it makes you look like you don't want to understand what these people are going through and just call them wusses.

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once i start working im going to be paying tax. not paying tax right now, but i will be later and it takes time to change laws so i'd rather push for this before i need to start paying. also i'm tired of having other people who dont want to give their money waste their money on this stuff.

But you don't pay taxes.

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if their suffering bothers/concerns you thats the definition of compassion. "sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others:" though some/many of us got our own survival/lives to worry about. also getting helped and not offering any help in turn likely means you are a burden... (again what is going on in Europe is a good example of a burden)

But you just tell them to get out, go back home and fight violent religious fanatics that've wiped out entire townships and buried them in mass graves.

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and if the regular people worked with the rich to improve things then maybe the countries wouldnt have "fallen."

Er... so what does working with the rich mean, according to you? Do you want them to become indentured servants or something?

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again the way i feel falls in line with the definition of compassionate. i dont like the fact either but war, suffering, and death do happen and we need to be more resilient to it. the next thing is just telling people to be grateful for the help they receive if they aren't strong about it which is something that i havent really seen (again Europe as an example) the only thing im "demanding" here is that they be a decent individual, which i have the right to refuse helping if they arent even grateful for it. weakness to these things is kinda a bad thing since your chances of survival are lowered by it, but its not something that i view as a major issue, its not being grateful, or payingback/helping that is the problem.

The vast majority of them are decent individuals. I don't see how you're being understanding and compassionate if you think that anyone who isn't rich and can speak some language that was irrelevant to their former life is automatically a career welfare recipient.

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all im saying here is that ill not bother anyone, and be a decent human, so i dont see why you are surprised/weirded out by it (or at least thats what i felt your reply was expressing)

I'm saying that you comparing the situation you described and what some of the refugess have experienced is kinda... gross, to be honest. Seriously, your dog?

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when i said not even 10 i mean age<10 hell iv seen babies, toddlers, etc. if you hear bombs, and gunfire in the distance maybe then is not the best time to have a child. and from personal experience explosives can be heard from a very long/far distance so you have tons of time to know things arent going well.

Do you think those people should've put their lives on hold years before ISIS rolled through their town?

I'm not going to respond to the whole black people thing because I'm just... tired, and it's irrelevant to this thread.

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That's why I said partial blame... they went back to their partner knowing there is a high chance that they might be abused again and they took that risk. yes i know they can be scared, and me loving my partner unconditionally i know that its very difficult to stay away from someone you love even if they caused you lots of pain. but the thing is if you go back to an area you know has a high chance of harming you again then you are at partial fault.

By putting blame on the victim you are taking away from the perpetrator's autonomy and ability to make their own decisions and placing that on the victim. Do you understand why that might be the wrong thing to do?

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does it mean you should be punished? no, does it mean people should look down on you? no... all im saying is that you do have blame on your self but all punishments and judgements should be placed on the abuser. if you demand that you be helped, and they you be treated special because you are abused thats where i draw the line. if i see someone in need of help or asking for help, ill help. if i see someone demanding that/trying to shame me till i give them money, or if i give them money and they are ungrateful then thats where i completely refuse to help unless they are still in danger of that partner they are with, but if that partner is behind bars and you treat me like that then get lost.

You're saying that someone who goes back to their abusive partner at least somewhat deserves any beatings they get because they are to blame for their own abuse.

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(it might be due to you possibly thinking that the word "blame/blaming" is a super negative thing when in reality all it means is that they take some responsibility/take part in why something happened. i am no way looking down on victims for what happened to them, but if they start to negatively effect me then thats where they are doing something wrong)

So you think a victim of domestic violence should take responsibility for their partner's choice to beat the tar out of them?

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the victims here are the women, children, and those who arent working. the men at this time had complete control of the country (excluding the influence from the US, and Russia but in numbers they could have fought that off without violence). they could have worked together, and kept their country strong but instead they just couldnt work together. "luckily" (though not really lucky, since well.. no rights plus oppression from the men) women had no control over this so they get pretty much no blame.

What do you mean, they couldn't work together? I'm not sure what you're taking about here. And why is the average guy who works on a farm or fixes up cars or whatever to blame?

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they arent completely to blame for this but they should have worked alot harder to hold onto their land, and shouldnt be rushing over here. though the people who pushed for the wars in the middle east should be the ones paying extra to fix this mess.

Like the United States?

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This is what they should have done:
Spoiler: show
pretty much my whole idea is that they should have worked together to form armed fighting forces from normal civilians to protect them selves, and then work on rules/laws to restore order. (and also expose the US's influence in their country) its not that difficult if you are able to work with other people, and if your views didnt promote oppression/hate (allow women to work on their own and have equal protection under the law, allows gays/lesbians to be around unharmed, ignore race though they already do a great job at this since race stereotypes dont reach out there) after that you could form a stable society, and hell all ISIS got is a few coldwar tanks, and artillery pieces so with correct relations with another country you could get them taken out easily. though one thing you have got to have is a wall/perimeter, last thing you want is some ISIS personnel sneaking into your city/town causing issues.


I'm not sure of the relevancy.

Additionally, didn't Trump ask Rudy Giuliani about how he might be able to legally implement a Muslim ban?

Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2017, 08:57:42 am »
-----If that's the case, don't vote for the candidates who just use rhetoric and spew rubbish.
sad thing is that just doesnt exist, all iv been seeing in the 3 elections i was old enough to understand what is going on was rhetoric.
-----I've explained it multiple times. It seems that you might be beginning to agree with me, as you're conceding that you do seem to correctly identify that the wall is at least a little xenophobic.
its a tiny bit xenophobic but i'd say its a xenophobic as keeping my door locked at night, or putting a fence around my house.
-----No. This is a man that's supposed to be the leader of a world superpower. That's infinitely worse than some other personality ranting on Twitter. He goes about threatening the courts and badmouthing other countries, potentially causing international incidents in 140 characters or less. The bar for him is set far higher than it is for some internet feminist, and he often sinks much lower anyway.
ever since he won the stuff seems to be more appropriate though i do agree before the victory he was going pretty far. iv seen the same stuff from hillary too.
-----It's staggering when I see people from western countries explain to people in small, isolated second- or third-world communities how they'd avert the crises these people have endured. What do you think these people do when they see heavily armed insurgents rock up at their town hall? They run. They're not trained to use guns; they're not violent; they're not fighters, nor are they soldiers. They're farmers and people who run their own little businesses within their community and make a living doing their thing. Your insistence that these people should go join some army after witnessing gross acts of mass violence doesn't make you look compassionate; it makes you look like you don't want to understand what these people are going through and just call them wusses.
(this is a little irrelevant but they arent that heavily armed) now the thing is that they should keep an eye out so they can be read before they arrive, and dont run. as for not being trained with guns... those things are far to easy to use, hell i was hitting targets on my first time of using one, its very simple. also there are likely a few people who have a hunting rifle. as for them not being violent why dont we just ask some animal protection organizations... seen some videos of really messed up stuff that happens there. im pretty sure they are completely fine with seeing animals brutally killed, so there isnt really any difference in a human (hell if anything it should be harder to see an animal die, than a human who is trying to kill your whole town)
-----But you don't pay taxes.
not right now, but i want to get this done before any of my money goes to waste there.. also other people are paying taxes...
-----But you just tell them to get out, go back home and fight violent religious fanatics that've wiped out entire townships and buried them in mass graves.
because there is no room here, and if they force there way in here then my country might fall into pieces (look at all the riots, thats already happening) also maybe try actually fighting back (most of the videos iv seen are just people lined up to get executed, why not actually try to fight instead of just sitting there till you get killed?)
-----Er... so what does working with the rich mean, according to you? Do you want them to become indentured servants or something?
peacefully protesting, voting for someone who can run the country (they had a democracy for a few years), coming up with ways to improve the country, fighting corruption in the government, etc. the rich were the people in higher up jobs who provided useful services but the people as a whole need to work together for the society to function.
-----The vast majority of them are decent individuals. I don't see how you're being understanding and compassionate if you think that anyone who isn't rich and can speak some language that was irrelevant to their former life is automatically a career welfare recipient.
refugee camps in Europe are getting burned down by refugees no one stops them=barely anyone decent, most seem to demand they be taken in=barely anyone decent, throwing stuff at trucks/cars in Europe and no one stopping them=barely anyone decent. a decent person would put out the fire or attack the person trying to set the fire, ask to be let in but not throw a fit when not, stop people from throwing stuff at vehicles, etc. there are more examples here that i can find/think of though these should be enough. I never said they had to be rich... i never said that they have to speak English.. i dont understand the "that was irrelevant to their former life is automatically a career welfare recipient. " part though.
Spoiler: show
if what you mean is that "i dont see how you're being compassionate if you think that anyone who isn't rich or speaks English is a welfare recipient" then that doesnt really have anything to do with being compassionate.. but the thing is if thats what you mean that is pretty true. many of the people who come here are able to get here and live here due to our tax dollars

-----I'm saying that you comparing the situation you described and what some of the refugees have experienced is kinda... gross, to be honest. Seriously, your dog?
well my situation is pretty bad. these people seem willing enough to continue living, and even travel a long distance to survive and im pretty sure that many of them lost everything, then there is me where im barely holding onto the want to live, so yes i do feel im dealing with more pain than them. losing your will to live is likely the largest sign of someone's situation being the worst it can get. I don't really know what you mean by "seriously, your dog?" what about him?
-----Do you think those people should've put their lives on hold years before ISIS rolled through their town?
yes i do believe that they should have put their lives on hold. in my opinion its far better for them to have done that than to have their children put through what is going on right now. hell that should be classed as child abuse since they knowingly had a child while they knew things were getting pretty bad. if things aren't going so well, stop having children... they just slow you down unless you raise one correctly, and you are bringing another human into the mess you are dealing with
-----I'm not going to respond to the whole black people thing because I'm just... tired, and it's irrelevant to this thread.
to tell the truth it is a major thing people mentioned in this election and is relevant but alright then... we'll end it here.
By putting blame on the victim you are taking away from the perpetrator's autonomy and ability to make their own decisions and placing that on the victim. Do you understand why that might be the wrong thing to do?
putting blame on the victim in no way makes the abuser and more innocent. they made the decision to attack the person they are at fault and some action should happen to prevent it from happening again. but the victim still did something that lead to their own injury therefor are part of the cause. i see nothing wrong with it, i only consider it wrong if the victim is punished, or severely judged for their decision.
-----You're saying that someone who goes back to their abusive partner at least somewhat deserves any beatings they get because they are to blame for their own abuse.
they in no way deserve it to happen, but they had it coming... (there is a difference between those two) they knew doing something would lead to getting injured and they did it.
So you think a victim of domestic violence should take responsibility for their partner's choice to beat the tar out of them?
they dont take responsibility of their partner but they take responsibility of the event happening. if they never went back it would have never happened.
-----What do you mean, they couldn't work together? I'm not sure what you're taking about here. And why is the average guy who works on a farm or fixes up cars or whatever to blame?
they could come up with laws, they could enforce them, they could treat people equally, stuff like that. and they are to blame because many likely didnt work hard enough to do that stuff. and really farmers, mechanics, etc. can do alot if they work together. the working class is quite possibly the strongest class out there, they just need to work together to overthrow what they dislike which clearly didnt happen because things are a mess over there.
-----Like the United States?
not the united states in whole but the people who wanted the war so.... Hillary.... i had no part in those wars, many people had no part in those wars and didnt even want them yet the people in charge pushed for them (though the people who voted for those people are responsible too) but the way people are trying to fix it now (letting in refugees) is having a negative effect on me and many others so they are just doing it wrong (and if feel trump is fixing that issue to a certain extent)
pretty much what im saying here is those who pushed for the wars to happen are the ones who should pay not me or the people who didnt want the wars and tried to protest against them.
-----I'm not sure of the relevancy.
the relevancy is that this is something that they could have done to improve their country and might have prevented it from being weak enough to be invaded. it is kinda irrelevant now though because they didnt do this, im just saying how they could have done stuff.
-----Additionally, didn't Trump ask Rudy Giuliani about how he might be able to legally implement a Muslim ban?
he might have done that (i dont see any hard evidence of him asking that though, and people have just made stuff up about trump) but the current ban is not due to religion, it's because those are areas marked by obama as high risk, and just to stop these refugees from flooding into our country so they dont ruin it for us.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #96 on: February 07, 2017, 01:56:06 pm »
Let's not to be rude to other members. I know politics can get us stired up,
but lets try to be civil with each other. I am not pointing at anyone. It's just
a heads up.

If you find a story about someone making threats of violence, be they in demonstrations
or individuals. Please post a link to it instead of relating it here. 

It seems some people have a hard time expressing their discontent without using
bad language or violence. This is a family forum with young people looking in.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 01:58:03 pm by Old Rabbit »
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Offline Sergalicious

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2017, 04:26:37 am »
i have a question, is it even a good idea to try to impeach trump? because then we just end up with pence who i consider worse. (im not taking either side here, im just saying)
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar's chair
Full of broken thoughts...
You are someone else
I am still right here


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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #98 on: February 16, 2017, 10:34:37 am »
i have a question, is it even a good idea to try to impeach trump? because then we just end up with pence who i consider worse. (im not taking either side here, im just saying)

If I had to choose between two evils, I'd rather get rid of Trump.  >:( The guy is a habitual liar and has absolutely no experience whatsoever with politics. He seems to do all his running of this country from tweets on his phone. That is not the proper way to run a country.  >:(
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
« Reply #99 on: February 16, 2017, 11:24:43 am »
i have a question, is it even a good idea to try to impeach trump? because then we just end up with pence who i consider worse. (im not taking either side here, im just saying)

If I had to choose between two evils, I'd rather get rid of Trump.  >:( The guy is a habitual liar and has absolutely no experience whatsoever with politics. He seems to do all his running of this country from tweets on his phone. That is not the proper way to run a country.  >:(

As much as I disapprove of our sneaky Vice President I think he would be
better than Trump. He is someone who is thoughtful, and slow to anger.
Trump on the other hand is a pathological liar and is dangerous, and 
possibly beholding to Russias Putin.

Perhaps the Trumps VP lacky has been pulled into Trumps circle so
far he might be impeachable too.. Of course then we get the Majority
leader of the house. Not to my liking either, but better than Trump
or his VP.

People voted for Trump wanting change, but the left the house and
senate in the hands of the GOP. I thought that was rather strange after
everything they didn't do over the past 6 years.

Let's vote to change the house, and senate in 2018. That's the best
idea.  :orbunny:
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 12:01:38 pm by Old Rabbit »
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