Author Topic: U.S. Government Shutdown  (Read 8168 times)

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Offline SkyFire

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2013, 12:38:22 am »
Oh? I apologize for offering my opinion. I find your bit of humor there rather offensive.

And mylo, if no one runs the system, how long before it breaks down? If no one runs the government, how long before we begin  to cause chaos? It may take while, but still.

You do realize that there is still a police force and military, right? And they're both still getting paid. There isn't going to be anarchy anywhere. Just a lot of angry government workers and annoyed citizens. And we're already on week two and there's been nothing.

With all due respect, CEASE REPLYING TO MY EARLIER COMMENT. Thank you.
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Offline HazardJackal

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2013, 01:47:27 am »
[THE FOLLOWING ACCOUNT IS BASED OFF OF INFORMATION GATHERED FROM THE BROKEN AND USELESS PART OF MY BRAIN. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS REPORT MAY OR MAY NOT BE FACTUAL]

THE ANARCHY HAS BEGUN!!! I STAYED UP LATER THAN MY BEDTIME LAST NIGHT, AND SOON THIS DISREGARD FOR AUTHORITY WILL SPREAD LIKE A WILDFIRE, CONSUMING ALL IN IT'S PATH!!!  GRAB YOUR GUNS AND FOOD! HUNKER IN YOUR BUNKERS! IT'S GONNA HIT LIKE A STORM AND WON'T LET UP TILL TEXAS BREAKS OFF FROM THE STATES AND LIVES HAPPILY EVER  AFTER.  BUT THEN THE REST OF AMERICA WILL SEE THEM ALL HAPPY AND CHARGE IN, BUT THEY'LL FAIL, CUZ IT'S TEXAS, AND THEY HAVE MORE GUNS THAN THE REST OF THE STATES COMBINED!  AND THERE'LL BE A SECOND RED SCARE, EXCEPT THIS TIME IT WILL BE CHINA, AND THEY'LL THREATEN TO BUY OUR COUNTRY IF WE DON'T PAY OFF OUR DEBTS, WHICH WE CAN'T BECAUSE WE'RE BROKE!  SO THEN MEXICO AND CANADA WILL SLOWLY TAKE OVER THE U.S. WHICH WILL BE OWNED BY CHINA, AND WE'LL END UP AS SLAVES TO THEM!  BUT THEN WE'LL DEFEAT THEM BECAUSE KARL MARX AND GROUCHO MARX WILL RISE FROM THEIR GRAVES AND CREATE GREAT COMEDIC SHOWS TOGETHER THAT HAVE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES TO MAKE US WANT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT!  AND THEN SPOONMAN WILL COME AND CREATE A CULT OF FANATICAL FOLLOWERS UNDER THE CHURCH OF MCCARTHYISM WHO WILL TAKE OVER AMERICA AND SET UP A COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT, HEADED BY THE NOW REVIVED JOESPH MCCARTHY!  AND THE ONLY PLACE SPARED FROM THE INEVITABLE NUCLEAR WAR IS GREENLAND, AND THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE ARE WALRUSES! AND THEN EVEN THE WALRUSES WILL DIE WHEN THE ALIENS WHO HAVE BEEN WATCHING US SINCE THE BEGINNING WILL KNOW THAT WE WERE NOT MEANT TO BE AND PULL THE PLUG, TURNING OFF THE SUN, AND THEY'LL SEND IN A BUNCH OF UGLY SLIMEBAG-MEN IN HUGE SQUARE STARSHIPS, AND THEY'LL BLOW AWAY OUR PLANET TO MAKE WAY FOR A HYPERSPACE BYPASS!  
THE END IS NEAR!  

THE END IS NEAR!  
THE END IS NEEEEEEEAR!!!!

I'm not kidding you know, i DID stay up later than i was supposed to (but then, i ALWAYS do that, so there was nothing remarkable about last night.)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 01:59:01 am by Trenyth »

Offline Kobuk

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2013, 09:43:10 am »
Oh? I apologize for offering my opinion. I find your bit of humor there rather offensive.

And mylo, if no one runs the system, how long before it breaks down? If no one runs the government, how long before we begin  to cause chaos? It may take while, but still.

You do realize that there is still a police force and military, right? And they're both still getting paid. There isn't going to be anarchy anywhere. Just a lot of angry government workers and annoyed citizens. And we're already on week two and there's been nothing.

With all due respect, CEASE REPLYING TO MY EARLIER COMMENT. Thank you.

@Sky: Watch the tone of your post, please. ;) It comes off as being "a little bit" disrespectful.
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Offline Aakosir

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2013, 08:14:11 pm »
Oh? I apologize for offering my opinion. I find your bit of humor there rather offensive.

And mylo, if no one runs the system, how long before it breaks down? If no one runs the government, how long before we begin  to cause chaos? It may take while, but still.

You do realize that there is still a police force and military, right? And they're both still getting paid. There isn't going to be anarchy anywhere. Just a lot of angry government workers and annoyed citizens. And we're already on week two and there's been nothing.

With all due respect, CEASE REPLYING TO MY EARLIER COMMENT. Thank you.

What's the difference in quoting this one or the one on page two? Which I think are your only few posts and only one person quoted it? I wanted to make a comment that was relevant to the first, so I quoted the first.
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Offline Scion Tyven

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2013, 01:50:17 pm »
So with the USA defaulting in 2 days now, I thought I'd post this thing I found that basically sums up the 3 theories of what's gonna happen. What are you guys thinking?

1. The Apocalypse Theory – Top U.S. bankers and Fed leaders are calling the possible repercussions of a default “unfathomable.” U.S. banker Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase warned that it would shock money markets, which depend on the stability of the U.S. dollar. Stocks would crash – less because of the stability of the dollar and more due to the sheer panic that would entail. Millions of Americans would lose their homes, their cars and their nest eggs. We could end up with a crash so severe that it would be worse than the Great Depression and Recession combined.

2. The Don’t Worry, Be Happy Theory – A few economists, including Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, have said that a default would actually be good for the economy and even create “millions of jobs.” A default would, in theory, lead the U.S. to lose its status as the international currency and dramatically lower the value of the dollar. A low-valued dollar could greatly increase the profits of U.S. manufacturers’ exports overseas, incentivizing more companies to build factories in America and create American jobs.

3. The Constitutional Theory – Others are saying that we shouldn’t be concerned over a default because it isn’t ever going to happen, and they have good reason for saying so. Why? The Constitution forbids it. Section 4 of Amendment 14 of the U.S. Constitution forbids the government from ever defaulting. Instead, if we reached the debt limit, the government would be forced to prioritize its expenses and dramatically decrease its spending. You know, like any responsible person would do.
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Offline Foxpup

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2013, 10:59:32 pm »
So with the USA defaulting in 2 days now, I thought I'd post this thing I found that basically sums up the 3 theories of what's gonna happen. What are you guys thinking?
No it isn't. The debt ceiling will be hit in 2 days if nothing is done. In other words the U.S. will max out the credit card it's using to pay off the interest on its previous credit card. I'm not entirely sure why anyone thought that was a good idea in the first place, but the U.S. won't default until the next interest payment is actually due, which is October 31. The U.S. can in fact scrape together enough cash to make the payment, if it's careful with it's money... but since it isn't, the only way the U.S. can avoid default is to cut welfare entitlements.

1. The Apocalypse Theory – Top U.S. bankers and Fed leaders are calling the possible repercussions of a default “unfathomable.” U.S. banker Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase warned that it would shock money markets, which depend on the stability of the U.S. dollar. Stocks would crash – less because of the stability of the dollar and more due to the sheer panic that would entail. Millions of Americans would lose their homes, their cars and their nest eggs. We could end up with a crash so severe that it would be worse than the Great Depression and Recession combined.
I'm less worried about the markets and more worried about all the people whose welfare cheques are going to bounce. I'm just going to try not to think about that and be glad I'm not American. x_x

2. The Don’t Worry, Be Happy Theory – A few economists, including Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, have said that a default would actually be good for the economy and even create “millions of jobs.” A default would, in theory, lead the U.S. to lose its status as the international currency and dramatically lower the value of the dollar. A low-valued dollar could greatly increase the profits of U.S. manufacturers’ exports overseas, incentivizing more companies to build factories in America and create American jobs.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The reason a low-valued dollar increases the profits of exports is that exporters get paid in foreign currency, and then when they exchange that currency for U.S. dollars, they get more dollars because the dollars are worth less. The real value of the goods sold is exactly the same, but they cost less to manufacture because the company is paying it's workers in worthless U.S. dollars. You'd create millions of jobs too if you got paid in valuable foreign currency and got to pay worthless U.S. currency to your employees. Of course, with imports suddenly much more expensive in terms of U.S. dollars, nobody who gets paid in U.S. dollars can afford to buy anything, but hey, at least they have jobs. That's the important thing, right? Right?

3. The Constitutional Theory – Others are saying that we shouldn’t be concerned over a default because it isn’t ever going to happen, and they have good reason for saying so. Why? The Constitution forbids it. Section 4 of Amendment 14 of the U.S. Constitution forbids the government from ever defaulting. Instead, if we reached the debt limit, the government would be forced to prioritize its expenses and dramatically decrease its spending. You know, like any responsible person would do.
The 14th Amendment says no such thing, and I'm baffled that anyone could suggest it does (Obama, by the way, understands that it doesn't). It merely prevents Congress from voiding the national debt. But a debt isn't rendered null and void just because it doesn't get paid on time. It's still perfectly valid, and the creditors will continue demanding payment. There's nothing in that scenario that the 14th Amendment applies to.

EDIT: Typo
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 11:23:44 pm by Foxpup »
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Offline Scion Tyven

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2013, 04:18:10 am »
Ah, my bad. I've been hearing everything about the 17th so I just assumed that's when they were defaulting. I haven't actually looked up the 14th, but that seemed like something weird to have on your constitution. I'll take your word for it :P
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Offline Chiscringle

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2013, 04:38:55 am »
The full faith and credit shall not be questioned.  Having us in trouble over interest payments questions the full faith and credit.  It's a stretch but it's been brought up.  Not a likely path, but the President may choose to be impeached over it so he can have all this out on the Senate floor.
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Offline Foxpup

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2013, 05:36:17 am »
The full faith and credit shall not be questioned.  Having us in trouble over interest payments questions the full faith and credit.  It's a stretch but it's been brought up.  Not a likely path, but the President may choose to be impeached over it so he can have all this out on the Senate floor.
No, it specifically says the validity of the public debt shall not be questioned, in direct contrast to certain debts which are not valid, and are voided by this Amendment. Defaulting on a debt does not make it invalid, in any sense of the word. The debtor still has an obligation to repay it as soon as possible, and creditors still have a right to eventual payment. The validity of the debt is never in question, so the 14th Amendment doesn't apply. Obama understands that, though apparently not everybody else does.
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Offline Chiscringle

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2013, 05:34:35 pm »
Being unable to pay the interest, however, does raise questions as to the validity.  If the result of the vote is that people stop buying T-bills, that's action by Congress that causes questioning of the validity.  As I said, a stretch but possible.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2013, 12:11:21 am »
It's over.........for now.  :P

Quote
With the Treasury Department warning that it could run out of money to pay national obligations within a day, the Senate voted overwhelmingly Wednesday evening, 81 to 18, to approve a proposal hammered out by the chamber’s Republican and Democratic leaders after the House on Tuesday was unable to move forward with any resolution. The House followed suit a few hours later, voting 285 to 144 to approve the Senate plan, which would fund the government through Jan. 15 and raise the debt limit through Feb. 7.

But this is just a short term solution till our leaders bicker and argue again in Jan. and Feb.  :P
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Offline Mylo

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2013, 12:53:34 am »
They figured out a short term solution just in time.  :P  I never saw that one coming...

Offline Kobuk

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2013, 10:59:16 am »
They figured out a short term solution just in time.  :P  I never saw that one coming...

The thing that irritates me is that the solution, if only temporary, came "just in time".  >:( Why is it we can always find a solution right at a deadline, but never earlier? We're just going to be doing the same thing come Jan. and Feb. again.  :P  We've got to get out of the habit of governing by crisis,
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Offline Alsek

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2013, 01:06:19 pm »
It's far too powerful a political tool to give up that easily.

Offline Mylo

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2013, 04:19:27 pm »
It's far too powerful a political tool to give up that easily.

It's like in a movie. There's a reason the bomb is always diffused at 1 second on the clock.

Offline Alsek

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2013, 02:15:51 am »
It's like in a movie. There's a reason the bomb is always diffused at 1 second on the clock.

Yeah,  if the bomb squad were sitting around going, "What?  We figured out which wire it was hours ago.  We're just watching it count down to watch all of you get super stressed out."

Offline Mu Rho Ni

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Re: U.S. Government Shutdown
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2013, 02:30:10 am »


Yeah,  if the bomb squad were sitting around going, "What?  We figured out which wire it was hours ago.  We're just watching it count down to watch all of you get super stressed out."

It's the US government, that wouldn't surprise me at all. why, you ask. because THIS!!!! IS!!!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:33:12 am by Mu Rho Ni »
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