Author Topic: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!  (Read 8387 times)

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Offline Mylo

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 11:25:32 pm »
Furthermore,  once you say that you can tax one kind of product but not another,  you'll have companies lining up their lobbyists to get their competitors taxed and themselves exempt.  It's crony corporatism at it's finest.

That already happens in a sense.  That's why the entire school lunch system is the way it is...   :P

Offline Alsek

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 11:27:16 pm »
That already happens in a sense.  That's why the entire school lunch system is the way it is...   :P

I was using the school lunch system as an example of a problem we have already.  :P

Offline Amy

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 11:58:26 pm »
In economics, we're learning about supply and demand.

This is a scenario that actually happened... Jack in the Box has 99 cent tacos, as does Taco Bell. Jack in the Box's were super popular, so they decided to increase the price to $1.29, 30 cents more.

Demand dropped 80%.


If soft drinks cost more than healthy drinks, people wouldn't buy soft drinks. The issue is that the profit margin is ridiculous, it costs them more to make the cup than fill it with soda... okay, that might be an exaggeration, but it's like that. Stores make a huge chunk of their profit off of soft drinks.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2012, 12:03:48 am »
Quote
Whole milk isn't allowed to be sold in schools any-more,  for example,  because it might have an effect on weight.

That is the most ridiculous and absurd thing I've ever heard.  :goldpissed:
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Offline Amy

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 12:05:53 am »
Quote
Whole milk isn't allowed to be sold in schools any-more,  for example,  because it might have an effect on weight.

That is the most ridiculous and absurd thing I've ever heard.  :goldpissed:

... Wow... yeah... ridiculous...
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Offline Ziel

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2012, 12:07:08 am »
The government already specifically calls out tobacco and alcohol with their own specific sales taxes. These are typically determined at the state level. Add a sales tax to soft drinks/pop/soda/whateveryoucallitwhereyouare. The foundation to do it is pretty much already there.

The whole initiative isn't entirely about weight, either. High junk food intake impacts many areas of your overall health.

You're sticking to only the obvious conclusions here,  though.  I'm talking about gray areas.  Whole milk isn't allowed to be sold in schools any-more,  for example,  because it might have an effect on weight.  In fact,  with all the low fat food choices and the total lack of carbs,  If i had had to go to public school during my late teens and been forced to buy food from the cafeteria like many schools are doing now i would have been in serious trouble health-wise.


Secondly,  this philosophy of raising taxes implies two things that i'm really not even slightly okay with.

1.  That you can use a tax to modify behavior you don't agree with (the original purpose of a tax was outlined clearly to be only for need)

2.  That my body doesn't belong to me,  and it's the business of someone in the government what I eat or drink.


Furthermore,  once you say that you can tax one kind of product but not another,  you'll have companies lining up their lobbyists to get their competitors taxed and themselves exempt.  It's crony corporatism at it's finest.

On the first point, one could argue that the country currently does need revenue from something.

I agree with the second point (see below vvvvv)

However, the government already does tax specific types of products. I already mentioned tobacco and alcohol.  On top of that, a lot of places have 'prepared food taxes'.

Though I didn't know whole milk was banned at most schools, though I guess I can't say it surprises me.  It's a shame.

(Please note that I don't actually agree with the whole taxing thing, or banning it as it happened. Just was playing a bit of devil's advocate.)

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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2012, 02:33:20 am »
Putting a "snack tax" or a "supersize tax" on sodas and junk food isn't the answer. People are being taxed to death.  :P

What IS the answer is going straight to the source of the problem and telling the food manufacturers and all these fast food franchises to "clean up their act" so to speak and start coming out with more healthier items and/or discontinuing items that are fatty, sugary, etc.  Penalise the junk food makers, not the people who consume the junk food.  >:(


I hope you realize the hypocricy of your statements. One the one hand, you say you should have every right to eat and drink what you want (which I would agree with), but on the other, you're saying you don't want the responsibility of eating healthy and want government to tell someone else to stop giving you that option. In essance, that is what you are advocating and I don't agree with that. I say it's up to the person to take responsibility for their intake choices, regardless of what is offered. Besides, making meals from scratch at home is not only healthier, but also cheaper than going out for prepaired foods, so there's your financial incentive right there. It's just that people have become lazy and don't want to do that.

As to the law in general, I think it will achieve its goals, even though I don't agree with it. At first I was in the "well people will just buy a second soda" camp, but then I heard a report from a nutrishionist I trust. There was a small study done at a buffet style restaurant where they swapped out the plates to smaller ones without telling the customers. They found that the customers not only put less on the plates due to the size limitation, but also ate less in general. It's been a while since I heard this, but I think she said it had to do with the way we're wired. We see the act of getting food as "work", even if it's just going to the buffet for another plate. Basically, people didn't feel like making the extra trips for more food. In another study, they served up bowls of soup that had a hidden pipe to slowly keep filling the bowl as the people ate. After letting them eat and chat for a while, they were asked about the level of their soups. Most people didn't even realize anything was amiss and didn't think they ate near as much as they actually had.

So going off of those, I'm going to guess that this law will actually have people consuming less sodas (or "cokes" for us southerners. :P) because they A) won't have a giant cup/bottle/mug in their hand to sip on mindlessly and not notice their actual intake, and B ) Not want to bother with hauling a second one around or going back for a re-fill.
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Offline Alsek

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2012, 05:46:07 am »
On the first point, one could argue that the country currently does need revenue from something.

Then tax evenly.  You don't need to target one company's product just to make revenue.  If it's really about money they can raise the normal taxes just fine.  Also,   if you really care about people making healthy choices you have to remember also that any time the government becomes dependent on taxes from one thing to sustain itself,  they'll do everything in their power to make sure that one thing continues to be sold.  That's how we ended to prohibition of alcohol.   ...Because somehow they taxed it even while it was still illegal to drink.

We're in debt because our government is bloated and finds new things to do in order to justify it's own existence like regulating how much soda can be sold in a cup at a movie theater.


However, the government already does tax specific types of products. I already mentioned tobacco and alcohol.  On top of that, a lot of places have 'prepared food taxes'.

Just because they've already made completely asinine and arrogant laws doesn't mean it's a good idea to make more of them.

Though I didn't know whole milk was banned at most schools, though I guess I can't say it surprises me.  It's a shame.

(Please note that I don't actually agree with the whole taxing thing, or banning it as it happened. Just was playing a bit of devil's advocate.)


The point of mentioning whole milk was to remind you that outliers like myself do actually exist in normal society.   You can't look at a base of the population and then attempt to dictate how the entire population should act because of that.  It would really suck for my to be taxed based on my choice of food or drink because a  boated bureaucracy with nothing better to do takes it upon themselves to take over the responsibility of someone else's weight problem.

I understand that you're trying to play the devil's advocate,  but the arguments are flawed and i hear them constantly.  =\

Offline Ziel

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2012, 07:14:01 am »
The arguments are flawed only when viewed with a certain set of values. Granted, that mindset seems to be fairly common.
But the fact is that existing measures which have been pretty much accepted and become commonplace already exist for other things. The tax wouldn't accomplish quite what they are getting at with this whole initiative, but I have to wonder if it was discussed as an option. I would think they would have been all over that as a decent source of some extra revenue.

Moving on to actual more personal views, as much as I'm against the government saying what we can and can't eat/drink, I also wonder where the line is drawn. Projections show the US as reaching a 40% national obesity rate in 15 years. We're one of the worst countries in this regard (haven't seen a list in a while to give an exact figure). There comes a point where somebody needs to step in a bap the nation on the head to wake everybody up. Not sure how I'd want that to be done, and not sure I feel the government is the right entity for it. But clearly whatever current system we have isn't doing enough.

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Offline DreamerHusky

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2012, 10:49:24 am »
[ ... ]
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:34:52 pm by DreamerHusky »

Offline Ziel

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2012, 07:47:59 pm »
How much is 16 oz? I don't speak Imperial Units >>

Wait... 400ml... or have I calculated that wrong? 400ml is nothing o,o I guess the US is following Europe and taking the Nanny State route then.

About 475ml actually. Basically makes it the size of a standard can of pop here.

And yes, it is a bit silly to try to legislate self-control.

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Offline werecat2012

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2012, 08:14:50 pm »
I support freedom of choice. If someone wants to order a 48 ounce soda (not the diet, the one with corn syrup or sugar), than they should be allowed to.

However, there could be nutrition labels in as a big a font size as possible on everything that is sold in restaurants and convenience stores. That might help.

This would be better than someone in the government deciding that they know what's best for the rest of us and then proceeding to ban things.

In some countries, you can be sent to jail for having the wrong hairstyle or for following a different religion. (Since we're posting at a furry forum...) Just imagine trying to be a furry there and wearing your ears, tail, and whatever else in public. You'd be executed.

You see, history and even current events shows us that it is not a good thing for government to become bigger and start intruding into our personal lives. I believe that we should find another way besides letting a "nanny state" situation occur.

How much is 16 oz? I don't speak Imperial Units >>

Wait... 400ml... or have I calculated that wrong? 400ml is nothing o,o I guess the US is following Europe and taking the Nanny State route then.

I think 400ml is a little less than 14 oz.

As for the whole milk that was mentioned earlier in this topic, babies and young children actually need cholesterol. It's necessary for neural attachments and proper system development.

Offline Foxpup

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2012, 05:27:44 am »
About 475ml actually. Basically makes it the size of a standard can of pop here.
Actually, it's 480mL exactly. In an attempt to mess with our minds, U.S. food labelling laws make it illegal to use fluid ounces to actually refer to either U.S. or imperial fluid ounces, instead it refers to a completely different unit of volume which nobody has ever heard of. :o

How much is 16 oz? I don't speak Imperial Units >>

Wait... 400ml... or have I calculated that wrong? 400ml is nothing o,o I guess the US is following Europe and taking the Nanny State route then.
Those are U.S. units, not imperial units. Though 16 imperial ounces is 455mL, so I'm not sure how you screwed that up. Though it's still not much.
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Offline WhiteStorm

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2012, 11:19:05 am »
However, there could be nutrition labels in as a big a font size as possible on everything that is sold in restaurants and convenience stores. That might help.

I sincerely doubt it. Anyone who cares enough to know what that stuff means is reading it anyway, and the rest would just blink and continue.
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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2012, 01:19:53 pm »
Limiting the size of a food package is rather useless as
it's mostly just a inconvenience, and not much else.

Practically all processed foods and drinks are here due
to people wanting to make a profit. Not to make us more
healthy.

Even cow's milk is for baby bovines not humans. It's a good
source of calcium and minerals at least.  I drink skim milk myself.

Nice thing about farmers markets these days one can
buy food that is usually good for you. What ever size
you like. :orbunny:

 
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Offline werecat2012

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2012, 03:30:54 pm »
I sincerely doubt it. Anyone who cares enough to know what that stuff means is reading it anyway, and the rest would just blink and continue.

Yes, you're right about this.

Since I care enough to know about nutrition, I looked it up on the Internet already. My new job is somewhat physically demanding. So I've been a little obsessed lately with eating nutritious food and with trying to increase my upper body strength.

Also, I once worked at a convenience store and was always scheduled to work on Friday nights and Saturday nights. I'm guessing that most of those people wouldn't change their diet any because of a nutrition label...

I guess I was mostly just thinking of the child who wants junk food, has a parent who isn't always strict enough about that, yet the child is also old enough to be able to read labels.

I'm glad that this topic exists though and that people here can talk about something like this without being mean. That's really awesome.  :)

I still oppose "nanny state" though and hope that something can be figured out without going against freedom of choice for the individual.

Limiting the size of a food package is rather useless as
it's mostly just a inconvenience, and not much else.

Exactly!  :D

I hate how small a pudding cup is! I don't eat just one at a time... more like three.

Nice thing about farmers markets these days one can
buy food that is usually good for you. What ever size
you like. :orbunny:

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to look around for a farmer's market where I live sometime and see if I can find any food there that I would like. I've mostly been shopping at Superstore and Wal-Mart since I moved to where I live now, since I can't afford to do most of my shopping at those little health food stores.

Offline Storm Fox

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2013, 11:42:43 am »
A judge has blocked New York's large sugar based drink ban… :D

Quote from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21747568
A court has blocked a ban on the sale of large sugary drinks - including soda - from restaurants in New York City, a day before the law was to take effect.
Judge Milton Tingling ruled that the measure was "arbitrary and capricious", after industry groups sued the city.
The law would forbid the sale of drinks larger than 16 ounces (473ml) in food-service establishments.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the judge was "totally in error" and has vowed to appeal against Monday's ruling.

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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2013, 11:47:51 am »
Yay!   :D

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Offline Mylo

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2013, 09:02:40 pm »
Lol, the timing.

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2013, 12:06:32 am »
[bbc news link]

I find it interesting that the British Broadcasting Corporation has an article on this.  Though this development would be of interest to the American public (due to the possibility of this setting legal precedent), it doesn't quite seem worthy of being international news.
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Offline Ickyrus

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2013, 09:12:35 am »
It is rather worthy of international news but not for reasons that Americans would want to know. Personally, I prefer this ban on serving massive sized drinks idea more than a tax on sugary drinks to deter people from getting fat off them. IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, I have said this and just been laughed at, but because they're trying essentially to make a 'fat tax' to try to make people control themselves, why not put the tax on large clothing? That way it gets who they want along with fashion defunct people who feel the need to wear tents rather than clothing. You can still eat and drink what you want and skinny people aren't having to pay for fat dieters. I am thin and only drink sugary softdrinks, I don't want to have to pay because someone else is greedy for food or whatever.

Also, we don't really have 'super-sized' here in Aus that I'm aware of, but are still the fattest country. I don't think what people drink is the problem, but perhaps the mentality that you have to eat so much to be 'healthy'. Ugh. Parents and their shouting EAT MORE EAT MORE, WHAT ARE YOU STARVING YOURSELF? EAT 3 LARGE MEALS EVERY DAY WITH PLENTY OF SNACKS OR YOU'LL DIE. I live on barely 1 meal, I'm in the 'average' weight range, I get sick what seems to be less than other people, I do well at school and can concentrate, have ordinary energy amounts and find no reason to stuff more into myself outside of social occasions that revolve around eating. I get that some people like their food and may want to eat more than that, but they need to take it upon themselves and not the government to make sure that they're not overeating, or if they are, they're compensating for the extra.

Then there's the whole ewww, you're too thin, go stuff your face until your fat thing. If someone is carrying extra weight they get encouraged to be large and told that they're beautiful and "skinny fem-dogs" can go to heck and everyone says they're not 'real'. Just because I'm not oversized, doesn't mean I'm any less existent, nor have I been airbrushed or photoshopped to be thin. As far as I can tell, society has made it a terrible thing to make someone even politely aware that they might be overweight unless you're a doctor. And that leads to many people like I've met, who are dangerously obese but think they're just carrying a 'little bit extra' and can have 5 more cheeseburgers. BUT THEN, everyone is allowed to tell thin and average people how repulsive they are for not being fat and that's so very wrong.

Offline Jackie

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2013, 09:35:06 am »
On a side note, I think this man epitomizes the Texas way of thinking.


That...is a very...large bottle  x_x :o
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Offline Huskywolf

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2013, 02:26:34 pm »
I totally agree with what your getting at kobuk  8)    Most of the time I choose DIET  MTN dew because I don't NEED the excess calories and it means I can drink more of them and replace those calories with eating a bit more junk  :-[  and although DIET doesn't taste AS nice, after a while you get used to it  8)    But no a BAN is absolutely RIDICULOUS .  it's people's own choice if they want to fill their stomach with crap, sure it's not good, but it's their body and life it's ruining, not anyone else's.
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Offline Scarlegs

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2013, 06:34:28 am »
This is a silly ban, they should be going right to the drink companies. Though I think you should monitor what goes into your body, it shouldn't be a twenty four hour chore.
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Offline Furenzied

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Re: Want that drink Super-sized? Sorry, it's banned!
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2013, 11:02:06 am »
As substitute for the large, may I get 2 medium sodas?...
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