Poll

If you had to describe the mix,what defines it the most

Too much high end.
Too much low end.
Voice sounds detached.
Instrument sounds detached.
Its okay as it is,more or less.
Mids not present enough.
Mids too present.

Author Topic: Your feedback. Pretty please.  (Read 1485 times)

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Offline Choky

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Your feedback. Pretty please.
« on: May 19, 2013, 01:55:27 am »
TL;DR --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSk7QyFjG_s Feedback, pretty please.

- - - - -

Otherwise:

Hi all,I uploaded this song to youtube because everywhere else I upload my stuff the site seems to disappear after a while,maybe its my fault,hehe.

Anyway,I would very much like feedback on this recording,as some of you know I recently purchased new monitors,so what I would like to know is how this mix sounds on your system,is it too tinny,is it bass heavy,is the voice too far forward or back? Things like that. Any help is greatly appreciated,the more people and the more systems its tried on,the better. I will also value McMajiks ear overall since he also has studio monitors to listen to on and he will hear every detail(regardless of youtube compression Im guessing),anyone else with a pro setup is also of super high value to this,but that doesnt make anyone else any less important,again all input is greatly appreciated.

You can also bash my vocal technique,piano playing or whatever you like,any critisizm is a pointer towards a mistake I probably wont make next time around,also Im thick skinned in that manner so dont worry about my feelings.

To mention one of the problems that I have found myself but it only appears on one system out of the four Ive tried it on(so not sure if it really is a problem or not):  Sometimes on my tv speakers the left channel will saturate for a tiny moment but only on the hard piano parts,anyone else getting that on their own system?

Other problems but duely noted: In the second part of the song(actually recorded first) you can hear the computer fans bleed into the mic track and I also forgot the popfilter on that part aswell(I know,Im stupid),it was since I was excited to get a track down on the new monitors I forgot to place it in a safe place away from the pcs noise,I screwed up there,and for that I am sorry,I hope it doesnt ruin it for you. Its also the reason the lyrics are so cliched,damn my impatience to get a new track down on these monitors,hehehe,theyre not too bad though just opposite to each other in each half of the song.

Anyone interested in the new gear used this time,an Acorn Masterkey 61 midi piano(at last direct midi,no more rerouting) and Yamaha HS80M monitors,basicly thats what this song is testing the water for. Also bought a new tweed guitar cable,but thats nor here nor there for the purpose of this thread :D Still of some interest to some on this site though (:

Anyway,please comment,I appreciate your help,ever so much. Hell,theres even a poll now for your added voting pleasure,I prefer real comments though :)

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSk7QyFjG_s
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Offline Natura Wolf

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2013, 02:39:53 am »
Hey Choky, I think this is what you PM'ed me about (still confused)

I love the Ambient begining that this song has.  The piano is very lulling to the ear and the ambience gives the song a sort of New Age genre to it (btw i'm a massive enigma and Enya fan, so it's a compliment ^^)

My critism is that the song seems to be split in two.  The first part has the ambient and certain piano melody, and the lyrics about someone who left and wanted to come back (this right?) while the second is just Piano solo and about  the difficulty of a relationship?  These feel like two seperate songs that you could explore more on both.  My only other advice/comment is that your vocals for the first song felt a bit out of context to the song (which isn't a bad thing), like i said the song felt ambient and new age but your vocals were applied in a sort of Rocky power ballad way (if that makes sense).  Where as your vocals for the second one is a lot softer.  What if you switched the tonality of your voice around so the soft harmonied voice was applied to the first half?

It was really enjoyable.  I would of liked to hear what it would be like if you removed the rocky quality form your voice so all the vaules and continents were clear (like classical singing (not opera)) just to see what it would be like.

What do you think?  Remember this is all ust oppinions and advise :)

Offline Choky

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2013, 03:06:51 am »
I think thats great advice actually,and you are right,the song is very schizophrenic in its lyrics,but I did warn about that in both the youtube video and post,hehe,but thats for good reason,they were both written separately then joined together late,hehehe,the second half was actually done before the first half then switched places.

I can see what you are saying about the rocky vocals in the first part,but my brother would never let me live it down if I didnt put a bit of power into it sometimes,hes a rock and blues singer you see and pretty damn good. But you are right,softer would have gelled with the music way more. Duely noted and taken onboard for future use,thanks.

Any note on the values of the mix? That is what Im really after here? Did it sound too bassy or thin? Or okayish maybe? Maaaybeee? *crosses fingers* :P
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Offline Natura Wolf

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2013, 03:27:11 am »
If you mean the veriety and unity of the sounds against one another it was great.  Only thing a little edgy was the transition but again you mentioned these songs were seperate.  I tell you what it reminded me of though (which is also a duel song)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AREkeJry4gs

It has the same sort hushed down ending into the next song :)

It was fine, please don't be to hard on yourself with the music.  You can see clearly your heart is in the music :)

Offline Choky

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2013, 04:02:19 am »
Okay this is the last post Ill be able to make today,its 10 in the morning now,I need to sleep,hehe.

Thanks for the feedback,that is what I was looking for as Im trying to find out what it sounds like on each fursons sound system so I can size up my monitors to how others would hear it in the real world. If I could trouble you for one more question,was that on earphones or speakers that it all sounded okay and leveled? I hope others hear it that way too,if they do then it means I mixed it successfully for a variety of sound systems.

In regard to the track you posted,actually Mass Effect is nearly next on my games list to play,the first part though,not played any of them yet much less the third one but Im planning to play them all,and Im told Im in for a hell of a ride,but not yet though,because Battlefield Premium pack was on offer this weekend on live and Ive purchased it,so thats going to keep me entertained for a while yet while I get some cheevos on the new maps,its actually distracting me from music,grrr,hehe. Thanks for the comparison too,much appreciated since its a cool track to be compared to.
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Offline Natura Wolf

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2013, 04:12:33 am »
I was using headphones on a UTC ^^ (dumb terminal)

Offline weese

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2013, 04:16:05 am »
Sounds great! I have played it over about five times now. I like the fact it is almost like two different songs. Not sure why, but they blend well together.

I don't know much about music at all, so take my comment with a grain of salt. To me the instrumental is ever so slightly too loud for the vocals at a few points. It's slightly overwhelming. That is the worst thing I could find, which IMO means it is truly great ^^



Thank you so much for posting!

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Offline weese

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2013, 04:22:40 am »
Just read your last post, that was posted as I was typing. I listened on Bose QC3 headphones.

The low frequency bass was very strong. Not too strong, I think it was good as it is and I don't like a lot of bass. But the Bose don't have much bass so it may be different on other systems.

Again, my audio knowledge is near 0, so don't listen much to me.


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Offline Choky

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2013, 10:27:28 pm »
To me the instrumental is ever so slightly too loud for the vocals at a few points.

Thanks for the advise I will keep it in mind,not only for future use but also for if I ever remix this,I may need to compress it a little more too. Thanks for the kind comment and multiple views too :D

Also,nice score with those headphones,I believe they are not only wireless but noise cancelling too,awesome 8)

Okay,so far everyone with headphones I see,going well so far,lets see if it takes a turn for the worst when someone with speaker posts... x_x
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Offline weese

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 03:55:34 am »
To me the instrumental is ever so slightly too loud for the vocals at a few points.

Thanks for the advise I will keep it in mind,not only for future use but also for if I ever remix this,I may need to compress it a little more too. Thanks for the kind comment and multiple views too :D

Also,nice score with those headphones,I believe they are not only wireless but noise cancelling too,awesome 8)

Okay,so far everyone with headphones I see,going well so far,lets see if it takes a turn for the worst when someone with speaker posts... x_x

Not wireless, but are noise cancelling which is nice when other people in the house watch TV :3  They have also lasted quite a while and are still going, mostly thanks to the replaceable wire.
I will try and play it on my jobs limo sound system, it is rather impressive and well tuned IMO (Not all bass, you can actually hear the music). Then I can give you an opinion on how it is through speakers.


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Offline McMajik

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 07:26:02 am »
Right, sorry I'm late! D:

Okay

First thing that jumps out is the vocals are a quite top-heavy, too much of that pseudo-detail that comes from a trebble boost with no real presence in the mids. Are you still using the MXL mic I think you were using before? Does it have a bright switch? Make sure it's off.

Towards the end of the first half, where the piano starts to get more dense, it starts to drown out the vocals a bit.

If you have a top end presence bump EQ'd in, you could remove it and bring the whole vocal track up

The vocals sound pretty heavily compressed too, you might want to ease back on that a bit and give their natural dynamics some room to shine through

I ~love~ that piano sound for the first half, but I think the second half calls for something a bit brighter, less mid-focused.

Gah, and now I'm just itching to do a mix of something like this myself DX

Offline Choky

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 06:52:06 pm »
Thanks Weese,that would be awesome. And the cable is the first thing to go on my cans too,no matter how much care I take of them :D If they release headphones with a lifetime guarantee on the cable they would be the worlds best sellers :D

--

Yaaay,McMajik,was starting to think you werent coming :D Did you use the Behringers for this or cans?

Nah,the mic doesnt have any switches,but I still havent swapped out the tube like I said I was gonna do(entirely my fault),still the stock Chinese one in there so its still tooooo bass heavy with very little headroom,leading to heavy EQing to get things to sit right in mixes. So more mids in future vocals right? Duely noted,thanks. I am not a pro,so I dont really know which parts get to "own" each frequency,except for the given that the bass and kickdrum own the low lows in any mixes they are in. Any pointers on that are appreciated since I was just winging it by ear,as you can tell :P Piano just takes up so much sonic space,grrr!

About the piano drowning out the vocals there,that was partly intentional,at first I thought the vocals were too overpowering at end of the second half,so I cut them by a few dbs(by automated ducking),I can see I was wrong about that though,hehe,Weese said so too,next time Ill ease off in that sense.

Aww,I thought the vocal compression was okay,the microphone technique was good so it didnt need that much either(2:1),the backing vocals are heavily(7:1 or around there) compessed though,do you mean those? Then again it could just be the tube mic,thoughts?

As Ive said,the second part was done before the first part,so the piano in the second half is just the crappy one that comes with Cubase(the fact you noticed that is very reassuring to your title as audiophile,dont worry I expected no less,hehehe),then for the second half which was done later on I got a new plugin(the Garritan Steinway for Kontakt if you want to get it for yourself,its pretty decent) and yes,it makes a hell of a difference as you can see,its gonna be my default piano from now on,until I get my paws on something better.

All in all,one main question,was it all down to a certain frequency that was lacking or overpowering,in other words do you think I need further room threatment in a specific area for these monitors,or was it just the mixing process that was a little off(my fault,not the room,Id actually prefer this,haha)?
I was seriously thinking "Okay,when McMajik gets here hes gonna tell me the bass freqs are overpowering and that I must be compensating for the rooms acoustics,I just know it",but Im guessing the existant basstraps are enough then,that is good news,very good news. But its a better mix than my normal mixes were,monitors were a good investment,right? I can hear the difference myself (: I just need to learn their inherant sound and nuances off by heart then Im set,not bad for first go if I do say so myself,hehe.

Oh yeah,and did you not hear any saturations on the left channel? For sure? It must just be the tv then...figures since they are not there when on headphones nor monitors. Also good news.

Again,thanks for all the help,I always learn from this,for anyone who doesnt know,I used to global reverb the crap out of my mixes until McMajik told me not to,he knows his stuff.
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Offline McMajik

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 08:55:22 pm »
Used the Behringers. May have to take back my glowing praise of them though. Despite how good they are, there have been some, ah...reliability issues (One of the reasons I was late, actually) :p

Actually, I already use Garritan personal orchestra, it's amazing! Funnily enough, I posted a short, repetitive orchestral thing a while back (Here) that was done using it.

Hmm...it could be the mic. I don't know much at all about natural tube compression, but it sounds pretty heavily compressed. Or perhaps you have the compressor threshold incredibly low and it's shaving lots and lots off anyway. Or, it may even be an illusion caused by the treble bump, I'm not sure. But come to think of it, it does sound like the tube is distorting it (Not a bad thing, just a thing) so I'm willing to blame the tube :p

Ah, ducking. I've never managed to make it sound good and tend to avoid it lest it ruins whatever I'm working on. If you manage to unravel it's secrets, please share them with me DX

I wouldn't say you don't have bass problems yet. There are none here, but this isn't particularly bass heavy. But if you've actually got some traps in there, it's probably fine anyway


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Offline Choky

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 10:03:35 pm »
Thats a shame,it must be hard to start thinking about parting with monitors youve grown to love and know the sound of well. Im all ears(LOL,rabbit pun) if you want to share what happened with them.

Nice composition youve got going on there,I must have missed that one(ahh,last year,figures,I wasnt as active on Furtopia),yeah Garritan P.O. is quite nice,but Ive found that apart from the combos,most of the single instruments when soloed sound very traditional midi(I think you know what I mean),especially without any reverb,some of the new and recent string sections by other companys you can see on youtube now are amazing,sound just like the real thing even in legatto(by never using the same sound sample twice in a row) and portamento,so natural. But,they also come with a price-tag to match,so furballs to them :P

Yeah its quite obvious I may have "ducked" too much here...I just didnt have the patience to take those 10min breaks to reset my ears like I should have,was too excited to finally get a mix down on the new monitors,next time,neeext tiiime thooooough *shakes fist in air* I SHALL unravel its secrets if its the last thing I do :P

Oh and Im all for tube sat (: Me likey.

Oh wow, that feels good. Say it again. SAY IT AGAIN! D:<

*Big inhale of air* HE KNOWS HIS STUUUUUFF!!!!!!!!!! :o
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2013, 12:41:12 pm »
I am far from being a good audio critic, but to me the
voice is a bit overwhelmed by the music. Otherwise
it sounds fine. :orbunny:
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Offline Choky

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Re: Your feedback. Pretty please.
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2013, 10:45:47 pm »
Thanks fellow rabbit :D Its strange to see you around this section,whatever the reason may be though Im glad you took the time to stop by and help,thanks! :) If you ever make it back and have a second to spare just say if it was on headphones or speakers,either way it was very helpful and is much appreciated.
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